Tags
11th Duke of Beaufort., David Somerset, Edward III of England, Henry II of England, John of Gaunt, Katherine Swynford, Plantagenet, The Duke of Beaufort, The Duke of Sommerset
I have been interested in European Royalty since about 1978. That was 35 years ago. Now what I am about to say hopefully will not come across as arrogance but I do find myself surprised when I learn something new. I am not saying I know everything it is just that when I discover something that I thought I would have known, and didn’t, it does surprise me a bit. Sometimes I am embarrassed to admit I didn’t know something. This is the case with today’s blog.
In my study of British royalty I have neglected the aristocracy to some extent. In my research I have discovered that the House of Plantagenet still exists in the male line. I had been under the impression that the House of Plantagenet had died out in the male line. Now the living male line Plantagenet descendents are from an illegitimate line, or the “wrong side of the sheets” as they say, and they no longer bear the Plantagenet name, so to some that may mean the line has ended. I myself on the other hand, am not so sure.
Who were the last legitimate male-line Plantagenets? Richard III was the last Plantagenet King of England and he was from the House of York. His brother, George Plantagenet, 1st Duke of Clarence, 1st Earl of Salisbury, 1st Earl of Warwick, was “privately executed” at the Tower on 18 February 1478. He left one son, Edward, Earl of Warwick, who himself was executed in 1499 during the reign of Henry VII. When the Earl of Warwick died he had been the last legitimate male-line member of the House of Plantagenet. The first King of that line had been King Henry II of England who died in 1189.
However, an illegitimate line of the Plantagenet dynasty lives today. The representative of that line is His Grace, David Somerset, 11th Duke of Beaufort. To trace his line back to the Plantagenet dynasty one has to go back to the reign of King Edward III of England. As stated in my Legitimate Succession series (still on going) Edward III and Philippa of Hainault had many children that survived to adulthood. The one we concern ourselves with now is the third surviving son, John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster. To find the line of Plantagenet descendents we must go to the third marriage of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford née (de) Roet.
(This next section is a repeat from my blog dated 25 February 2013)
Initially Katherine was the governess to Gaunt’s daughters, Philippa and Elizabeth. After the death of Gaunt’s first wife, Blanch, John and Katherine entered into a romantic relationship which produced 4 children, all illegitimate being born out-of-wedlock. However, two years after the death of Constance of Castile, John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford legally married at Lincoln cathedral 1393. Subsequent Letters Patent in 1397 by Richard II and a Papal Bull issued by the Pope Eugene IV legitimized the adult children of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford with full rights to the throne. However, an Act of Parliament in the reign of Henry IV confirmed their legitimacy but barred the children from having rights to the throne.
(new information)
The line from John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford took the surname Beaufort. Thier eldest son, John Beaufort, became the 1st Earl of Somerset and married Margaret Holland the daughter of Thomas Holland, 2nd Earl of Kent, and Lady Alice FitzAlan. Thomas Holland, 2nd Earl of Kent was the son Thomas Holland, 1st Earl of Kent and Joan “the Fair Maid of Kent” (granddaughter of Edward I of England, wife of Edward the Black Prince and mother of Richard II of England). John Beaufort 1st Earl of Somerset and Margaret Holland had 6 children among them Henry Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset and John Beaufort, who became the first 1st Duke of Somerset and Edmund Beafort who became the 2nd Duke of Somerset. John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset married Margaret Beauchamp of Bletso and had one daughter, Margaret Beaufort who became the mother of King Henry VII of England.
Since the first Duke of Somerset died without male issue the title Duke of Somerset passed to his younger brother, Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset. Edmund married Eleanor Beauchamp and had 10 children. Edmund’s eldest son, Henry Beaufort, became the 3rd Duke of Somerset in 1455 and died in 1464 without a legitimate heir. His brother, Edmund became the 4th Duke of Somerset and died in 14?? also without an heir and with him the main Beaufort line became extinct.
The Beaufort line was a legitimized line from the House of Plantagenet and despite the extinction of the legitimized Beaufort line, this line also continued from an illegitimate offspring. Although Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset, died without a legitimate heir he did leave an illegitimate son from his union with Joan Hill. His son Charles, took the surname Somerset and was created first Lord Herbert and then 1st Earl of Worcester and was Lord Chamberlain of the Household of Henry VIII of England. As Lord Chamberlain, Somerset was largely responsible for the preparations of the Field of Cloth of Gold between Henry VIII and Francis I of France in 1520.
This line continued until Henry Somerset, son of Edward Somerset, 4th Earl of Worcester (1568-1628) was created 1st Marquess of Worcester. His grandson, Henry Somerset, 3rd Marquess of Worcester, was created 1st Duke of Beaufort (an homage to their origins) by King Charles II of England and Scotland in 1682. This line has continued to the present day with His Grace, David Somerset, 11th Duke of Beaufort and is a male-line descendent of the House of Plantagenet, albeit through two illegitimate lines.
DC said:
I was aware of the subject from a BBC Radio 4 program some years ago (I will see if I can get a reference for you). I think there is no hiding that the Somerset Beaufort/Worscestor line is an illegit line of the House of York. The reason why it is is not hidden is in some ways the same reason why the issue of the claiment line of Stuarts is absolutely not threat to the ruling House of Windsor or a claiment to the British Throne.
European royality has always been based on either legitimacy or making it as such. Bastard children have no claims unless formally adopted. Bastards whom take control by force require through marriage or a constitutional change to be declared legal, if not they are simply nothing – or a lesser status perhaps given or that they have acquired.
It is, however, from a historical and geniological perspective, very interesting and a well written item on your behalf. Do not worry about discovering that there is data and information out there that you do not know about, it happens and will always happen again as there is just so damn much out there!
billfoley63 said:
Thanks! There is still so much more to learn. I am studying the Howard family and Dukes of Norfolk. In the future I will report on them.
Paul said:
Fascinating, you really do know your stuff. I was watching a program on tv the other day where they traced a plantagenet decendant to Australia, he was working as a fork lift truck driver. I wonder how many illegitimate children Henry 8th left behind and their descendants after the Tudor line diminished. I know he supposedly had children with Mary Tudor amongst others.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I watched that tv programme on youtube last night and was struck by how much Michael looked exactly like my father Michael and they are about the same age., I looked on my family tree and I also have the Hastings and a whole bunch of La Zouche family and of course the Plantaganets. In genetic distance I am a subclade distance of 1 for the royal families of Scotland, England, Russia,, Sweden, Austra.Bulgaria and Norway. I was also surprised to discover that Charlemange although a Frank his ancestors were Sythians from Russia. I also have Frankish, Sythian, , Flemish , German , Austrian, Swedish, etc etc. DNA. Is a subclade in genetic distance a bit like a tree with 0 being the trunk, 1 being the big branches, 3 being the twigs and 4 being the leaves??? Maybe this is just all one big coincidene and as i have read almost 80% of Europeans have royal ancestors but I suppose some are closer than others. Ill keep on investigating and see what else I can come up with, I have also had some DNA matches with living people with surnames such as Romanof, Stuart, Windsor, Bohun Stafford and DÁrcy which are also all on my family tree and they are living all over the world. Does this help to strengthen my point?? Maybe yes and maybe no. Ill just have to keep on investigating.. I dont think its a case of knowing if you are descended from royalty as somewhere down the line all Europeans are somewhere, but it is more a case of how genetically close you are, A s I mentioned before , it is not the same being a trunk of a tree or a leaf!
Tammy Cannon said:
Hi Bill, if your interest is in the Stuarts; It is said that my 4th Great Grandmother Elizabeth Stuart b;abt 1755 married Aaron Harlan. Her father, my 5th Great Grandfather Samuel Stuart b;abt 1725 Londonderry, Ireland, is the illegitimate son from the defendants of James Francis Stuart. I personally am unable to to connect the dots, but given your drive and determination you would be the person to either debunk the tail or prove it to be true.
Just curious…
Michael Smith said:
Good Morning,recently I have done my DNA and my family tree,from my grandfather George Stanley Patterson it leads to my 15th great-grandmother Anna Plantagenet Princes Van England,daughter of Edward IV. can you tell me about them?
thank You,Michael Smith
celticpatterson@gmail.com
AJNUTCH said:
Edward IV’s daughter didn’t have any descendants.
Brenda Wilkinson said:
http://www.geni.com/people/Edward-IV-of-England/5004605390570058208 He is my 2nd cousin 17xremoved and also my 2nd cousin 4xremoved’s husband’s 10th great grandfather. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward-IV-of-England
garlichoney said:
You’ve done a great job, BillFoley63! And look how your comments section is still expanding, all these years later: people are fascinated by the kings and queens of England.
karenleahy said:
Hello,
I am a Howard and a direct descendant of the 2nd Duke of Norfolk Thomas Howard. I read your blog on the Plantagenet male line, which was quite interesting. I too am fascinated with my family’s history. You previously stated that you were interested in writing about the Howards and the Duke of Norfolk. Had you indeed done so? I would fancy reading it if so.
Sincerely,
Karen
Lindy said:
My grandfather was U152 Z36 and FtDNA Globetrotter has tracked that line to crossing from Northern France to England in the right timeframe for the Conquest. Our family goes back to Fairsnape Fell Bleasdale Lancashire which is Trough of Bowland area where the Duchy of Lancaster and the Duke of Westminster’s Abbeystead Estates are. I have the Parkinson surname in my tree on five different lines but the closest is via my mother who was a Parkinson. This very English sounding name is reputedly descended from the Featherstonehoughs via a younger son, so written in a book entitled ‘The Parkinson Family of Lancashire’. I looked at the FtDNA name study page for Featherstonehoughs and I noticed several Y DNA J men at the top of the list, a very typical Norman line and not U152. Someone has traced a different Parkinson line, my 5th great grandfather to a marriage that leads to a lot of Royal Houses. If anything it’s a lesson in how networking went on amongst powerful families. I have an open mind but there are certainly a lot of Parkinson farmers in Lancashire and you do wonder how that came about. I wonder if any Somerset’s have Gedmatch??? Sorry to jump in but I was trying to find one of your posts with ‘reply’.
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
Bill…
Edward III, king of England is your 20th great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → Margaret Gamage, Baroness Howard of Effingham
her mother → Sir Thomas Gamage of Coity Castle
her father → Elinor Gamage
his mother → Margaret Grey (Touchet)
her mother → Eleanor Tuchet
her mother → Constance, Countess of Gloucester
her mother → Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York
her father → Edward III, king of England
his father
Edward III, king of England is your 16th great uncle’s great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father → Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk
his father → John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk
his father → Katherine Howard
his sister → Edward Neville, 3rd Baron of Bergavenny
her husband → Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland
his mother → John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, 1st Earl of Richmond
her father → Edward III, king of England
his father
https://www.geni.com/people/Edward-III-king-of-England/6000000000202115160
###
William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham is your 13th great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father
William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham is your first cousin twice removed’s wife’s 12th great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → Elizabeth L. Hunt
her mother → Pearl Hester Edge
her sister → Kenneth L B Wilson
her son → Mary Geneva Alvey
his wife → James “Henry” Lee Alvey
her father → Mary Theresa “Sis” Alvey
his mother → Tresa Eleanor Alvey
her mother → Mary Belle Alvey (Jarboe)
her mother → Henry Jarboe, IV
her father → Henry Jarboe, III
his father → Mary Jarboe
his mother → Monica Greenwell
her mother → John Norris, Sr
her father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father
https://www.geni.com/people/William-Howard-1st-Baron-Howard-of-Effingham/6000000003219782389
L hallett said:
The current Windsor family is descended from an illegitimate source! Via Sophie of Hanover from Henry VIII’s sister Margaret, granddaughter of Margaret Beaufort, legitimised but barred by an act of parliament from ruling – not to mention via a female line – also not allowed until very recently in British royal family!!
AJ said:
The British Royals have always been able to inherit through the female line.
Lars Barnhart said:
I agree my documents prove that my great great grandfather William Augustine who changed his name from Augustine to ostic queen victorias 1st cousin 21 in line on wiki tree was murdered in laloose canyon New Mexico queen victoria stole the throne I have a document that states that queen victorias grandson was Adolph hitler her real father was John r conroy William ostics daughter Elizabeth Augustine ostic married prince Lars Emil strand in the 1900s in laloose canyon New Mexico I have ancestry documented proof and wiki tree as proof these are lost strand royalty documents covered up by goerge 3 and parliament
liamfoley63 said:
All of what you’re saying is completely bogus and very laughable.
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
That’s probably true but there are lineages which do not include Margaret.
Rhodri the Great, king of the Britons is your 33rd great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lewis “Babe” Jones
his father → James D Jones
his father → Isaac Newton Jones
his father → William Robert Jones
his father → Martha Stain Jones
his mother → Elizabeth Fowler Craig
her mother → Mary “Polly” Nickell
her mother → Mary Elizabeth Lewis
her mother → Dorothea Waller
her mother → Elizabeth Smith
her mother → Mary Brooke
her mother → Dr. Roger Mainwaring
her father → Thomas Mainwaring
his father → Roger Mainwaring
his father → Sir Humphrey Mainwaring
his father → Margaret Mainwaring
his mother → John (of Ightfield) Warren
her father → Griffin de Warenne, of Ightfield
his father → Maud Warren
his mother → John le Strange, 2nd Baron Strange
her father → Eleanor Giffard
his mother → Maud de Clifford, Lady Giffard of Brimsfield
her mother → Margred verch Llewelyn
her mother → Llewelyn Fawr ap Iorwerth, Prince of Gwynedd
her father → Margred verch Madog, of Powys
his mother → Madog ap Maredudd, Brenin Powys
her father → Maredudd ap Bleddyn, Brenin Powys
his father → Bleddyn ap Cynfyn, Brenin Powys
his father → Angharad verch Maredudd
his mother → Maredudd ab Owain, King of Deheubarth
her father → Angharad verch Llewelyn
his mother → N.N. ferch Merfyn
her mother → Merfyn ap Rhodri Mawr
her father → Rhodri the Great, king of the Britons
his father
rayjwarren said:
I think that you are a little down on “bastards” in Europe but I think that you will find that William, Duke of Normandy was an illegitimate child and yet was afforded all the trappings before he ever took the Throne of England. It is rather obnoxious of the aristocracy to place such a denigration of children in place as the aristocracy were all bastards before the Romans arrived. A first born son is not always the strongest and does not always want to be heir [King Edward and his brother George] so I consider the Heir setup as stupidity. The Earls Warren died out because they relied on first born children and at the end of the line, they could not find families from the earliest Earls to continue it and so illegitimate children had to be called in.
Benjamin Barber said:
Our Royal line has had many twists & turns and in earlier times being the elder son of The King was not enough to guarantee succession, military and political power can and did overpower any/all Family Ties. So many examples too much to mention. Most important one’s thou not counting the pre 11th Century events those years it changed 3-5 times in 1 decade sometimes?. Norman Invasion, Stephen taking the throne after Henry 1st died. Edward 3rds lines really fucked things up being the source claim that split The Plantagenet House into York & Lancaster which Henry Tudor as some have hinted at above somewhere came from a disinherited line thru Cognatic primogeniture claim. Henry 8th many fuck ups too many Wives his Daughter no official kids which led to Catholic Stuart line, Cromwell and all that shit Stuarts still hang on unbroken until the powers behind the throne decided we didn’t want to be ruled from Rome having a Catholic Monarch. So invited William of Orange over to have our Throne because he was Protestant. It gets a bit more removed here Anne takes it after William 3rd and she was his Sister in Law? George 1st takes it after her and he was the only 4th? 5th Cousin of her very distant cousin?. So it’s all over the place?
Sally Hobson said:
I’m a direct Warren descendant, but female!
Bill said:
Because the DeWarenne’s were royalists, we relocated to America because of the lack of morals in Britain.
Donald Link said:
Henry VIII had an illegitimate son named Fitzroy (literal translation is “of royal line”) but despite his desire for a male heir, did not formally acknowledge him.
liamfoley63 said:
Henry did acknowledge Henry Fitzroy as his illegitimate son but because of his illegitimacy he was unable to give him succession rights.
garlichoney said:
Legitimacy was a form of proof of purchase, so to speak: you have this stud (king) and this bitch (queen), so you have a fair idea of what the puppies — the products of their union — might be.
In a monarchy, a king certainly did not want some other man’s child sitting on the throne, nor did anyone want to be ruled by a king’s by-blow from a tryst with a half-witted servant girl. A half-witted aristocrat with strong ties to the king, perhaps in a pinch; strong ties were crucial to help insure loyalty, as well (not that it always worked). There are reasons why lines were drawn regarding an heir’s legitimacy, and those reasons were sound. Yes, people have always found ways around legitimacy, when it suited their purposes. Ask the current Queen of England about that. Or let sleeping dogs (bitches, to be specific) lie.
Anyone commenting here about their centuries-old ancestry believes that blood lines and/or family ties are of great importance, or they wouldn’t care who their ancestors were, and wouldn’t bother even thinking about them. Few have acknowledged that, after years of working on their genealogy, they can’t be certain the information they have is correct. They also admit that there surely were cuckoos in the nest at least once in all those generations. Even armed with such good sense, they are here, knowing that the people who made history are, directly or indirectly, a part of their own, 21st-century lives.
Anyone who disagrees with any of this should have a chat with a reputable dog breeder.
Brandy Fullerton said:
Thanks to DNA test I have learned that one of my direct lines in my tree is not of the surname it has today. Some generations back a fertile cuckoo was on that branch with a direct female ancestor. 🙂
garlichoney said:
“A fertile cuckoo” ahahaha! That’s great! And it’s life.
We’ve all got cuckoos scattered throughout the nests in our family trees, like it or not. (And some of them are FERTILE CUCKOOS!)
garlichoney said:
You guys, some dingdong got online half a year ago, and changed my mother’s information to that of a stranger! Eek! Why on earth would she change the information? She never met my mother, and is not in my family.
See how easy it is to get the wrong information from online genealogy websites?
This is an excellent example of why we much check EVERYTHING, at EVERY STEP. If you get your great-grandmother’s name, write to the town she was born in, and ask them where to get birth records (probably a church). Keep trying, until you get the documentation. I keep such records in a special box, but I need to get a tin box, or, better still, one of those fire-safe boxes, so I can pass the records on to the next generation, when the time comes.
Getting proper documentation is painstaking work, but it could save you many hours of labor on someone else’s ancestors. It’s also interesting!
I feel like smacking the person who changed my mother’s identity. I suppose this one was just too personal.
FERTILE CUCKOOS DROPPED IN THE NEST BY DINGDONGS!
garlichoney said:
UPDATE: Looks like I can’t change my mother’s information back to the correct information. Looks like even if I could, the wrong person is now on microfiche as being my mother.
DO NOT TRUST ONLINE GENEALOGY. THEY DO NOT OFFER “RESEARCH,” THEY ARE JUST A BIT OF FUN.
Sir Kevin Parr, Baronet Kendal said:
Both my mothers family Neville and that of my fathers noble family go back to Plantagenet blood lines. Sir Kevin Parr ,Baronet
Denise Y. Fielding said:
That is interesting! I have documented Parr ancestry and also reputedly Plantagenet blood. This was told me by a great aunt who was a Sister of the Community of the Resurrection. I was a young girl and told not to forget that I have Plantagenet blood! It seemed important to her. We never discussed it further. Seeing this post probably, I suppose too, through the Parr connection?
Mary P Thompson said:
Mine, too! My mom’s family were descended from John of Gaunt and thus the Nevilles and Tudors, but sadly, all illegitimate.
Mary P Thompson
Mary P Thompson said:
I am also a Plantagenet through my mom’s family. We are related to John of Gaunt, the Beauforts, Nevilles and Howards. But sadly all my ancestors are illegitimate.
A said:
Just found out that I’m a Herndon. So much information it’s mind blowing but it seems there may be some Plantagenet ancestry through Digges and Neville bloodline to John of Gaunt.
https://www.geni.com/discussions/180743
KathyK said:
I descend from the Plantagenets via the Joan Beaufort Neville LIne thru Bonvilles, Greys, Dudleys, Woodvilles, Ruggles, Bishop, Munkittrick, Wilsons. Even on the other side of the pond. There is nothing illegitimate about any child.
Tammy said:
Can you tell me anything about Princess Agnes Hollingsworth, granddaughter of Charles Somerset? Or husband Prince Robert Hollingsworth?
Brenda Wilkinson said:
http://www.geni.com/people/Agnes-Hollingsworth/6000000004541289904
Brenda Wilkinson said:
Agnes Hollingsworth (Savage) (1520 England-1580) wife of Valentine Hollingsworth, and had one son Robert Hollingsworth III. She is my 4th cousin 13x removed.
AJNutch said:
There isn’t a princess agnes hollingsworth or prince Robert hollingsworth.
roberta hartley said:
Very enlightening to learn more about our family tree and Henry II and Geoffrey his legitimate son.He was quite a character.
Tara Clark said:
I am in the US, and as far as I can tell through my genealogy, I am the G—–G granddaughter of Lady Margaret Plantagenet and her husband, Richard Pole, through her daughter Ursula Pole (married: Henry Stafford). Also, I am the G—-G granddaughter of Henry Plantagenet (King Henry II) through his mistress Ida de Tosny and their son, William Longespée. My question is: Was William ever actually legitimized or just recognized, and what is the difference?
liamfoley63 said:
Henry did recognize or acknowledge that William was his son. The difference between legitimation and recognition is that with you legitimizing indicates that the union the child came from was a legal marriage. I recognizing him and his son he merely admitted paternity in that he was his father. It doesn’t change the child’s legal status as being illigitimate
Lars Earnest Barnhart said:
Here’s the truth we didn’t die off I still exist I’m strand royalty we are house of Normans started by rollo I’m claiming my royalty I’m getting back everything the anglo saxons took from my royalty family British Royal line are Anglo Saxons the fitz are rollo and William the conquer and Barnhart jacobites are Irish Viking royalty there the legitimate royal lines not the British Royal line that’s the truth strands started the government monarchy and Parliament of England in 1327 ad
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I suppose you have all the documents to stake your claim otherwise it is just hearsay-
Lars Earnest Barnhart said:
Yes I do
Lars Earnest Barnhart said:
Yes I do all 15 folders of research DNA proof documented proof
jean Wild said:
I am also a direct descent of Rollo. King Henry ll had an illegitimate son Hamline who is my grandfather.
Bill said:
I have done a paternal DNA test. I am Hamelin D’Anjou DeWarenne’s great grandson. We are sons of Rollo, and of D’Anjou. I am 49% Danish Viking, 49% Merovingian noble, and <1% Basque and Iberian. My mom side we are cousins of the house of Hapsburg. She has <1% Inuit, and a red head? (Atilla the hun influence).
David Norman said:
Amen!
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Almost all of European descent can claim some relationship to the Plantagenants , Tudors or Stuarts whether it be through a common ancestor. a gateway ancestor or even direct. There are millions of people all over the world, If you go back 1000 years we all share some DNA as the population then was very small compared with now-
Bill said:
Actually ma’am, for some of us our paternal chromosome follows the surname. In my case that would be the House of DeWarenne. But Hamelin’s wife was a true DeWarenne. Hamelin was a paternal D’Anjou, but took his wife’s name (DeWarenne). In modern day the surname became “Warren.” Interestingly, me mum was commenting how her family were Normans. I learned noble blood still seems to stay a bit close. Not only was me dad’s, dad’s, dad’s were the same blood as King George VI, Me dad’s mum was a Stewart, and of King James. Me dad’s father’s mum was a McCoy, from Argyll migration. Now how can this be after 13 generations of Warrens in America. Seems is genetics. My dad married me mum, a descendant of the house of Hanover, like Queen Elizabeth II. (I think that’s the right house)
I can also tell you that DNA haplogroups don’t change from evolution. If you are R-M269, so were you most ancient paternal ancestors. Oddly, Czar Nick II maternal haplo group is T2a1a2, yet as are me parents.
The key is staying with the direct parents, everyone gets lost with all the dang cousins.
Its also interesting that “Norman” was a people and a surname.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I understand what you are saying. DNA is everything. My maternal is H3 which is also shared by many European Royalty and my father is R1B which is also shared by many royal houses- I am aslo connected to the Limburg Sitrum as one of my distant grandmothers married into that dynisty in the early 1800s (she was from Co Wexford Ireland) (A Redmond) and thats why I have a lot of Dutch Belgian and German DNA. English royalty are all connected to the European monarchs as they tended to marry cousins. The European monarchs are all one big family, Even Elizabeth II is related to the Irish king Brian Boru through herr Scottish mother and the Duke of Wellington who was Irish even though he wanted to be English.Queen Victoria was Haplogroup H and was of German descent too- My mother´s maiden name was Francis and they go back to Rollo and Edward III like millions of us do. It only takes one ancestor to marry into royalty to get a direct connection, unfortunatly parish registers only go back to about 1540 in England but if your ancestors are noble it is easier to trace them than if they were simple labourers. If you live in a statley home and have all your ancestors portraits hanging from your enormous staircase then there is , of course no doubt and little investigation has to be done.
jean Wild said:
Bill, thanks for the very informative video on Joseph of Araminthia and Jesus and England. I had no idea.
Lars said:
Here’s proof queen Elizabeth 2 are nazis and queen victoria had William Augustine ostic her cousin 21 in line murdered in laloose canyon New Mexico in 1895 queen victorias grandson was Adolph hitler but what they didn’t know was William Augustine ostic 4ths daughter Elizabeth Augustine ostic 4 married prince Lars Emil strand and saved the crown at all costs in the 1900s in New Mexico
liamfoley63 said:
Absolutely none of this is true.
Noble Sir Knight said:
I have recently discovered that I am from the Plantagenet bloodline! Yes, my grandmother (late) Madge Lee Stepp was related to Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford and Maud is my 18th great grandmother. She’s also the 11th gg of George Washington and this makes George Washington & I 12th cousins – 7 Xs removed.
As far as I know… I am 100% “unknown” and thus I am the “Unknown Plantagenet.” I don’t know how to do genealogy well but have had help discovering my relationship.
Michael Foster said:
I was mistaken about my grandmother Madge Stepp (late) being related to George Washington… she’s NOT, however,my OTHER grandmother (late) Clara Waddell IS related to Col. Augustine Warner, Sr. and Warner, Sr. is George Washington’s great- great grandfather! So technically, i am NOT related lineally to George Washington, however, I am related lineally to Col. Augustine Warner, Sr. who’s related to G.W… tomato, tommatto?
Col. Augustine Warner, Sr. was related to Queen Elizabeth II (late) and King Charles III.. so this makes me their relative as well, however, I remain 100% undiscovered which is nice although it’s quite financially draining having no income to speak of!
The genealogist told me that I am related to George Reade and that Reade is my connection to royalty.
Kathy said:
I’m wondering why you consider just the male descendants and declare the Beaufort line extinct. I descend from Joan Beaufort’s marriage to Ralph Neville and am as much a Beaufort descendant/PLantagenet descendent as any male.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I totally agree with you, women who are direct descendants should be mentioned too as the female DNA passes through the mother almost unchanged- Father´s can also be hearsay whereas mother´s there is only one.
Bill said:
Madam, there was once a day when you had to be male to be king. Since Richard III, this has not been, and seems to have sparked the British civil war.
No offense but, women still can’t be a king. A woman will never be a brother either. Women are also more easily given to materialism. A true king is not, as is a true man.
Currency has no worth, and hasn’t for years, yet here we are. I’d rather be rich in heart, than worthless, meaningless paper.
Male lines can only be king, and why Queen Elizabeth is still a queen. Only men pass on their surname to their children, and only their boys pass that name along. Women choose to take their husband’s name also. It’s how we defined the family for aeons.
Real men don’t abuse their power. True kings don’t. But we have no true king to learn from, mother queen has been hiding ol dad for a while.
Monarchy is supposed to be an example (i.e. sovereign,) not a dictatorship.
Believe what you want to believe. You asked, I answered.
Bill said:
Also, in regards to Tracy’s comment. Um the paternal DNA also remains unchanged, like the maternal DNA. A woman is not a descendant of her father like her brother is. Men are not descendants of their mother like his sisters are.
There is only one chromosome we get directly from our parents, wether an XX or an YX. It’s just the way it is.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
With all my respect to men. Women who have become monarchs all over the world have been some of the greatest monarchs in history and not men. Such as Boudicia the warrior queen of the Britons. Elizabeth I and II, Queen Victoria and not forgetting Queen Cleopatra of Egypt and Catherine the Great of Russia, Many kings have been despots, or. even mentally unstable. such as King George,III Henry VI, Charles VI of France. The Tsar of Russia Ivan IV, Eric XIV of Sweden, Philip V of Spain, Christian VII of Denmark, Ludwig II of Bavaria and a few more.. In Spain and many other countries a woman does not lose her maiden names when she marries as she keeps her father´s and her mother´s names. My ex husband has both his mother´s and father´s surnamesIt does get messy as you end up with a very long surname.. The same goes for women, they keep thier mother´s surname so many end up with about 4 surnames!. I don´t know if that applies to royalty, Although women only get the X chromosone from their maternal line they do actually recieve 50% of their DNA from both their mother and their father, Throughout history women have always been considered as 2nd class citizens to be seen and not heard and were always in the shadow of their husbands right up until the 1950s. Women were there to produce hiers and if possible look as pretty as possible, In a man´s world many female monarchs have had to be stronger and proove that they can do just as well as a man in a male dominated world. Our great Queens have shown us just that.- Our long suffering Queen Elizabeth has had to put up with her scandalous sons and one will be the next king, He will have very big shoes to fill! Just like King Edward had when Queen Victoria died.
Bill said:
Actually Tracy, if I may add some details. I learned there’s a thing called a DNA fingerprint. It shows the parental contributions of each parent across 21 autosomal loci.
It would be logical to think 50% from each parent, but the way it works out isn’t ever true. Not even identical twins have the gene contribution as the other. Makes DNA fingerprinting unique and viable.
Just wanted to add that. Also you can use your DNA fingerprint to research public findings from archaeological sites.
If the ancients have your markers, bingo! Family!!
(And a $100 in the US :-D)
K, I’m out…
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Have you tried DNA portal or My true ancestry? When you upload your raw DNA they compare you to archeological finds and see if you are related, They also tell you your modern (last 400 year ethnticities) and your ancient with timelines and information, DNA Portal is free but my true ancestry is only free for about 48 hours and then you have the option to pay a one time fee according to how much information you want to know. Its not that expensive either and you only pay more if you want to upgrade. Its good for anyone who wants to know if they are related to the Scythians, The merovginian Realm. Anglo Saxons, and all the other tribes that have roamed the earth for thousands of years., There are 9 levels but I have 5 which is more than enough to discover many things about your ancesters.. No one is 100% English if you go back thousands of years. I turn out to be German, French, Flemish, Czech, Dutch and Belgian in my so called modern ethnticities and in my ancient Im Thunguri (German tribe and Hungarian). These two ancesrty sites opened up a whole new world that I had no idea about, Ive also added my mother´s father´s and son
s raw DNA and everything has been correct. as I have also checked the results on Gedmatch com and a few other sites so I know they are accurate.. I advise anyone who is interested in their past to upload as it will help you understand if you are related to European royalty as they compare your haplogroup with all the royal houses-.
liamfoley63 said:
In studying Royal Genealogy the royal house one belongs to is based on the male line. Generally people believe that with the death of the last male member in the legitimate line the Plantagenet line was extinct. I simply want to show that that the male line of Plantagenet’s do still exist although they stream from an illegitimate line.
Michael Foster said:
Actually, I’d love to consider more than just the male line, however, at best I am only a beginner at genealogy.
I’d like o dis- cover more about the Beaufort family because I know nothing a all about it. More needs to be know about Joan Beaufort and her marriage to Ralph Neville and I wonder if I am of Beaufort descent? I don’t know much about being of Plantagenet descent except my relationship to Lady Maud (Beauchamp) d’ Clifford qualifies me as ‘of the bloodline.’
Something else… I am related to Col.Augustine Warner, Sr. who was related to the Queen of England (which Queen?- Elizabeth I?).
Michael Plantagenet said:
Hey, you all forgot about me… when people talk on here about the Plantagenet line being extinct.I am here, male and of the Plantagenet Kniges Blut (royal blood). Allow me to explain- so, I’m “new” to genealogy and have done some research. This research confirms that I am related to Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford. Maud is my 18th great grandmother. I’ve known this for months, however, my new discovery is that my cousin Maud was the daughter of Thomas de Beauchamp, K.G., 11th Earl of Warwick who was descended from Geoffrey Plantagenet. This fact means that I am a Plantagenet living in America.
liamfoley63 said:
Your descent from the Plantagenets is through the female line?
Jean Wild said:
Really cool that you still retain the Plantagenet name.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 12:19 AM European Royal History wrote:
> Michael Plantagenet commented: “Hey, you all forgot about me… when > people talk on here about the Plantagenet line being extinct.I am here, > male and of the Plantagenet Kniges Blut (royal blood). Allow me to explain- > so, I’m “new” to genealogy and have done some research. This researc” >
noblesirknight said:
Your descent from the Plantagenets is through the female line?
1 side of the family is from the female line of Maud (Beauchamp) d’ Clifford. The other side of my descent is from Col. Augustine Warner, Sr. who was George Washington’s great great grandfather.
Danielle DuPont said:
I am the 25th granddaughter of Henry IV. Sarah Coachman gave birth the my great great great great grandfather in South Carolina. We have a huge family that still exists. The DuPont family is a direct line to the Plantagenet family. I just found this out being once and illegitimate child myself.
Lars Barnhart strand 3 said:
Hi sir just to let you know the strand royalty prince still exists we didn’t die off I’m heir of William 4th queen victorias cousin 21 in line William ostic Augustine 4ths daughter Elizabeth Augustine ostic 4th married Lars Emil strand and saved the crown at all costs in the 1900s in New Mexico I have documented proof sir I’m the lost strand prince and rightful heir to the throne of England and Europe I’m trying to raise money for international attorney to fight the royalty and parliament to claim it
Gregory Reed said:
Then that makes me a blueblood bastard
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
Many relationships to the same people.
Edward III, king of England is your 20th great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → Margaret Gamage, Baroness Howard of Effingham
her mother → Sir Thomas Gamage of Coity Castle
her father → Elinor Gamage
his mother → Margaret Grey (Touchet)
her mother → Eleanor Tuchet
her mother → Constance, Countess of Gloucester
her mother → Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York
her father → Edward III, king of England
his father
Shortest in-law relationship:
Edward III, king of England is your 16th great uncle’s great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father → Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk
his father → John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk
his father → Katherine Howard
his sister → Edward Neville, 3rd Baron of Bergavenny
her husband → Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland
his mother → John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, 1st Earl of Richmond
her father → Edward III, king of England
his father
https://www.geni.com/people/Edward-III-king-of-England/6000000000202115160
Bill said:
Sadly Richard III is G-P287, not R-M269. Guess ya gotta know that.
Jaqui Reilly said:
Do let us know about illegitimate children of the 11th Duke of Norfolk, especially Sir William woods and his line.
Benjamin Barber said:
11th Duke Norfolk (Charles Howard) seemed to be 1 of those Aristocrats that knew the game they play & used the tools he had at his disposal to advance himself and his future Family line as best as he could. His favourite successful tool seemed to be Marriage, Widow and then Marriage again then repeat? Or maybe I’m being harsh?
Bo said:
The Plantagenet kings, Edward I, Ii, and III, are my 21st, 20th, and 19th great grandfathers. Trust me, the line is alive and well.
Avery said:
They are my great-grandfathers, too. We are very much alive and well!
Philip Howard Price said:
they are mine as well–we are very much alive
Ken Tucker said:
My name is Ken Tucker. I am from the midwestern U.S.. My main motivation in doin family research is to locate and contact current relatives who live abroad in England, Scotland, France, and Germany. I am a direct descendant of the Plantgenets but looking for a claim is not a concern of mine. I want to find family and communicate with them. My line goes through all 3 Edwards and back to William the Conqueror. If you fit anywhere in there and would be willing, please let me know. I would like to meet with you, as family, regardless of the distance of locale or relationship. My way of thinking is that if two people have a common ancestor, no matter how far back, that makes you family. Anyone on this page up for a Plantagenet family get together? We could have BBC along to film the festivities.
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
We too have William the Conqueror in our background, as 25th Great Grandfather for me personally. If you are seeking family allegiance and/or lineage guidelines, I can give you access to what I have to date. Just let me know @ kathleenbostonmccune@gmail.com
Bill said:
Sir, I am a GGS of William DeWarenne, William the Conqueror’s 2nd in command. Though for my Plantagenet blood I am a direct great grandson of Hamelin D’Anjou, and Isabelle DeWarenne 4th Earl of Surrery. Hamelin was Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V eldest son. Geoffrey’s dad was one of the nine noble knights who founded the Knights Templar (Scottish Rite lore). We are descendants of the do nothing kings (Merovingian), and the trojan Argonauts. 4000 years ago my great grandfather was vizier and father of Pharaoh to Amenhotep. Any further and Noah’s Ark comes into play. The Plantagenet bloodline goes all the way to Adam and Eve, and why this paternal chromosome doesn’t come out of Africa, but the North Fertile Crescent.
Know what ya mean about family! The monarchs don’t say “Hi,” or even find it amusing, so don’t try. It’s fruitless. Trust me on that.
Know the Plantagenet bloodline is the bloodline of Joseph, son of Jacob and Rachel, Genesis ch31. Quran: Surah Yusuf.
What can ya do as a descendant of the bible?? Workin on it myself…
Hugh Lewis said:
Mine too -we are many
Peter John Morrissey said:
Me too. From Agnes Plantagenet of Geoffrey Earl of Anjou, father of Henry II who married Jordan de Marisco and had children including Geoffrey De Marisco, born in Limerick, Eire and was appointed Viceroy of Ireland.
Rebecca Jayne Anita said:
The Plantagenet Kings are also my direct descendants. We are alive and well. Hello, cousins!
Robert Combs said:
Mine too, this came to a surprise to me since I am a African American. Henry IV is my 18th great grandfather. I am related to him through Antigone Plantagenet. Hello family!!
Brandy Fullerton said:
Here! Here! 🙂
Kim said:
I’m in Texas and through a few female lines but go back far enough … Here! Here!
Jocelyn Bisshop said:
Yes indeed! Here in Australia too…descendants of Edward 111 Through George Duke of Clarence and Margaret Pole.
grdtobin said:
Might have Frances Plantagenet (grand-daughter of Edward IV) in my Basset ancestry.
Alex Plant said:
They are my grandfathers, as well. It is my understanding that with time, the name has been shortened, or something of that nature. As I go through my family tree, which is now Plant, it was many before me, Plante, and before that Plantagenet.
Shauna Courtney said:
Hello Alex Plant, did you by chance do DNA testing for the Plant DNA project? I’m interested in your family tree and you’ve traced your Plant line. We have two names that are connected to the Plantagenets, but we are struggling with tracing them back from our time. Just curious about how you went about yours, sounds amazing.
Thanks, Shauna Courtney
Robert Findley said:
Nobody ever thought about the descendants of Macbeth MacFinley he had three children by his Queen Gruoch. Hence the name of his youngest son Farquhar, who now is the Clan Farquharson
garlichoney said:
https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Plant
Jean H Thomas said:
They my great father too from Paine, Adcock Bosworth and The Rainsford are families .
Sir Kevin Parr, Baronet Kendal said:
You fail to give your family name or your own so anyone can say what cannot be traced.
bill said:
How do you re-enable a defunct noble house? My family’s noble house was defunct in 1902
Divintrix said:
They are my great great great etc. Grandfathers also. We Plantagenets are alive and well.
Peter Gowling (aka John Francis Puttock - illegitimate of course. said:
Plantagenets – anyone ever come across the “PUTTOCK” line of descendancy ???
Edward I – my 19th. GGF. You’ll never keep a good Plantagenet down.
liamfoleysuckingwad said:
Cretin.
Laura descendant of King John I said:
The Plantagenet line is still thriving in America. My brother and I joke about where being descendants of those Kings leaves us on the totem pole lol.
Tom Adams said:
Hey Laura, my ancestor, William Colmore, came to Feckenham royal forest in 1213 from Aquitaine to ostensibly be John’s royal huntsman. However it seems he was more an agent for him working with King Peter II of Aragon and Count of Barcelona. They were trying to prevent King Philip II of France and Pope Innocent III from taking control of Toulouse and losing religious freedom in southern France. It seems that recent research is refurbishing John’s reputation. He wasn’t such a bad guy after all!
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
Aye, we here in America claim both sides, legitimate and not, and I have 3 brothers with each resembling at least one on each side. Two are well and one not so hardy, though he is already 68 yrs. old. In the illegitimate side we have one sibling for the paternal side and another sibling of the maternal side (17th GGs). Ancestry is sometimes too telling!
anne LaRiviere said:
Can anyone please tell me if any of the illegitimate Plantagenet heirs took it upon themselves to found Plantagenet, Ontario, Canada? My father (LaRiviere) was born there (mother was Gauthier). the family maintains it is related to the illegitimate son but i don’t know if this is true. I would be most appreciative if someone could give me their thoughts. Thank you.
Anne LaRiviere
Benjamin Barber said:
Really? Although they where brutal mass murderers Especially Edward 1st & 3rd they where just products of their time and both where True real Kings and great Military leaders! Edward the 1st gets and has had his fair share of the spotlight in our time pointing out what a leader he was. But Edward 3rd is so underrated no many in even this Country really know all he achieved in his lifetime 1 of our Greatest Leaders. I believe The Plantagenets where the last True worthy Royal House to have the right who fought/won the right for them and their Family to be called Royal of this Country. But when it comes down to Ancient Ancestors 500 BC & b4 I have in my Family Line nearly all the Greatest Leaders of History!!! The only thing so does everyone else alive! lol. Our Species during its short life has nearly been extinct at least 2 times Toba Eruption 70,000 years ago and the End of the last Ice Age Clovis (Taurid meteor shower) Comets 10-13,000 years ago. Which has resulted in two population bottlenecks leading to fuck all Genetic diversity in our species? It’s that bad Genealogists make the comparison that you could take a large Troop of 500 Chimps from the Jungle in the Congo and there will be much more Genetic diversity in those 500 Chimps than the entire Human population of 7 Billion alive on Earth today!!. Also the bigger our population gets the closer in time this common ancestor we all share becomes. At the moment with a population of 7 Billion, this common ancestor is 500 BC
James buda said:
I am a descendant of Edmund the son of Edward 111. Where does that line go?
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
The Plantagenet Kings Edward I, II and III are my 19th, 20th and 21st GGfathers on my maternal, while Elizabeth who married Henry VII is on my paternal side. It seems that in the same family this happens in our lineage quite regularly.
Michelle Moore said:
Hello, I am a female and the Plantagenet line is alive and blessed. King Edward III, was my 21st. great grandfather. My 21st Great Grandfather from both my paternal and maternal side of my family.
Brenda WILKINSON said:
Edward the I King of England is my 19th great grandfather through his 1st wife Eleanor of Castile
Kayte Carr said:
Hi, I’m also related to King Edward ll, I believe through his daughter Joan. My mom said that if the first born wasn’t kind to his siblings, that they would get nothing. Resorting to maids and nannies and what not. Therefore lost in the shuffle. I think many of us ended up in the US because of the Catholics killing so many of the Protestants.
Bill said:
Hey Kayte,
Seems there was more than just Catholics persecuting Protestants. A lot of French Huguenots were Calvinists too. During the British civil war a lot of P.O.W.s were rounded up by Oliver Cromwell and sent to the New World and Australia to work in factories and farms for a time until the war was over.
Not all were Huguenots, some were freemen.
If you are truly a Huguenot descendant, France will grant you citizenship, or some such thing.
Lesley said:
Oh guess what, Joan of Acre was my 21st g grandmother and so her father, King Edward I was my 22nd g grandfather
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Anyone who is of European descent can in many cases trace their ancestors back to Royalty such as William the Conqueror or one of the Plantaganets, There are millions and millions of us all over the globe, The only 100% accurate way of prooving this is by matching your DNA with for example Richard III like two people did a few years ago when they discovered his skeleton in a car park in England. Would love to do this as according to my tree I am a descendant of John of Gaunt and Katherine Roet but am still very doubtfull as they didn´t have birth certificates back then so its all hearsay and geneology platforms who are maybe telling you what you want to hear.- by putting in an ancestor that suddley somewhere down the line makes your father King Edward I. Its very difficult to have bona fide evidence past the 18th century, Mine starts getting a royal connection through the Constables in the 16th century but how do I know that these people really were my ancestors??? Another problem is that many men married up to 3 or 4 times due to their wives dying in hat an early age so you have to know which wife of your 17th granfather was your ancestor . You have to use your detective skills in order to get accurate results and it also helps if you can get in contact with distant cousins to comapre information such as I have done. The more information you can get the more you can be convinced that these people really were your ancestors. Ive sènt probably thousands of hours investigating and am still only 70% convinced that Ive got it right and maybe I will never be 100% convinced without comparing my DNA with someone who is 100% sure about their ancestry.
Bill said:
Hey Tracy,
I did have my DNA compared to Richard III. His haplo group is GP287, mine was R-M269. I also didn’t get my answer “am I a Plantagenet.” I wasn’t told I wasn’t one, but not told I was either. Whatever a “viable tree,” means and apparently my own research doesn’t count, and the info at Ancestry. com FTDNA, or MyHeritage apparently doesn’t count either. Nothing compares to the scholarly accounts, not even specialist corporations. Pictures don’t count either (my uncle looks just like William DeWarenne, 3rd Ear of Surrey) and told “DNA doesn’t work that way.” But I thought that was the whole point of DNA. Common sense fails again…
Good luck.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
According to my maternal haplogroup I am j1c3e2 but Richard III was j1c2c3. I have discovered however that I have a lot of Hungarian and Ukranian nobility matches, I don´t really understand how haplogroups work. Is there anyone out there who could expalin?. Thanks.
Bill said:
Hi Tracy. What you posted was a maternal haplo group. Women don’t have a y chromosome. That’s men only. My haplo group is a “subclade” of R-M269 of my paternal chromosome, my maternal chromosome is T2a1a2.
What I’ve noticed is paternally, gets a lot of labels describing intricacies, maternally not so much.
I was tested to Richard’s paternal side, as his father is unknown, or in question. Yet I wasn’t told if I was a Plantagenet or not. I also didn’t match Somersets, Beauforts, either. Yet King George VI and I share a common ancestor.
Essentially, your haplo group would be consistent with Anne of York, Richard’s mom. Everyone has an X chromosome from their mom, only men have a Y.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi again. I have just put my son´s DNA onto the website and it comes up as haplogroup G2a and a 98% match with king Louis XVI and Henri IV of France, the sample of Louis taken from a blood soaked cloth after he was guiloteened, The canny thing is that my son is also called Louis and for the past 20 years I have had a locket with a painting of Marie Antoinette and on the back is written Marie Antoinette le rose which was given to me by my ex father in law who worked in an auction house in Montevideo. My son also has flemish and Spanish in his results which kind of ties in with the Bourbon dynesty. Is this DNA from his father as it is Y not mt, How does this tie in with Richard III or there is no relation. He also has a lot of Italian , even more than me, His father is Spanish and Italian. Ive got a lot of Scandanavian , Hungarian and Ukrainian.Im even more confused now.
Bill said:
Um, sorry to say, Richard III genetically is not a paternal Plantagenet, and there’s even been questions over the centuries. He’s definitely Anne of York’s kid.
His haplo group is G-P287. For the legends of the Plantagenets to remain legit, Richard would have to be R-M269, paternally. G-P287 is common amongst the jewish populations. Son of a flemish butcher? Maybe.
King George VI, and I share a common grandfather. Some baron land owners were of the Plantagenet paternal line. I’m not aware of any true DeWarenne paternal descendants alive today, however their surname lived on in the Plantagenet bloodline.
Though why is the Lion of Judah so darn important if the DeWarenne’s weren’t Jewish? Their motto was “The Lion of Judah is our strength.” The Plantagenet’s believe they descended from Joseph of Arimathea, the father of Jesus, who buried the Christ at Glastonbury.
Seems somebody knew something somewhere. So if King George VI is a Plantagenet, he would have to be R-M269.
Seems R-M269 produces kingships. Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V can be traced to King Priam. The area of where the legendary Troy is, 6% of their population is R-M269. So one can safely assume King David was R-M269, his brother Aron was of the priestly lineage. Different dad’s maybe…
Brandy Fullerton said:
This video will clear up your questions even if rhetorical? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHsU7Icu3H4
Bill said:
Seen it already. I’m very familiar with Robert’s work. Look up the one about the dragon bloodline. Robert nailed it again! I’m Rh Neg.
Anyway, this movie is why I believe the Plantagenet legends of Joseph of Arimathea:
I too have been DNA tested by Prof. King. She didn’t say I wasn’t, but would not say I am either and “needed a viable family tree.” I guess the one I’m doing doesn’t count.
Yet, here’s a kicker, my Paternal DNA is 25,000 years old, and, originated in the north fertile crescent. Yet can’t get anyone to talk to me about this. If I am truly a paternal Plantagenet, the legend about being direct descended from Adam and Eve may apply.
According to Robert, a true arab has blonde hair (see the video about the black box) at Robert’s site “Atlantean Gardens.”
Then the Plantagenets claim ancestry from Joseph of Arimathea. Does this back up the Adam and Eve legend?
So then, if Poseidon built Atlantis, and the monarch’s are descendants of Atlantis, Adam and Eve, Joseph of Arimathea, why this “Sea God,” as King Merovech’s father? The Irish also have a sea god called Manannan Mac Llyr, the Isle of Mann was named after him. So I looked, I found Merovech<-Pharamond<- Chlodius <-Marcomir<-Priam<- Laeomedon<-Llyr(?). Is that the true ancestry from an Irish sea god? Could his name be Poseidon in Greek? He’s Neptune in Roman. According to Homer Poseidon and Apollo built the walls of Troy. Apollo caused a pestilence to the Greeks. Meaning Apollo was at Troy, and also known in both hemispheres as Apollo, the god of light.
Yet it was Poseidon who built Atlantis, who’s oldest son Atlas ran. Orion was Poseidon’s 2nd eldest, and twin brother of Atlas. Seems Orion may have ruled Egypt. Then there’s Enki, the Sumerian sea god. So there’s a few sea gods to choose from…
I remember when I was a kid and the LDS home teacher told my parents they were descendants of Joseph of Arimathea. My paternal grandfather was the church member, they did his tree.
Oddly, my maternal DNA is the same age. I guess that’s rare and originated in what is now Saudi Arabia, and Queen Victoria is a maternal cousin somehow.
Bloodlines never change the surname, people do.
Everyone publishes stuff yet answers no questions.
garlichoney said:
As far as I know, only one Plantagenet has donated DNA material, and that’s Richard III. Yes, there were rumors he was a bastard. Illegitimacy was a common rumor among those who wished to besmirch a king, and one of the few things, outside of murder or warfare, that could start the game of musical thrones playing. Rumors of illegitimacy were the fake news of the day. Yes, some really were bastards, but rumors do not mean reality.
How likely is it that Cecily Eviller ever came in contact with a butcher?
Richard’s haplogroup does not say anything about his religion, though he would have been Christian. Remember, the Norse had been Christian for centuries before Richard was born. Speaking of which, “the Lion of Judah” refers to Christ, and that is how it would have been understood. https://www.gotquestions.org/lion-tribe-Judah.html
No one knows where any paternity breaks occurred, be they before or after Richard. It’s a moot point as far as the throne goes, since the Tudors won the throne fair and square. Rather than speculate or cast aspersions on Cecily Neville, we’d do better spending time finding probable descendants (those who can document their lineage back to the 15th century), and urging them to contact Turi King.
Richard III is thought to have been blond as a child, then brown haired as an adult. And speaking of blonds as a group, they are native to Northern Europe, not Arabia. The evidence that the Norse sailed south as far as Arabia (and beyond) keeps moving back in time, meaning there were blonds in what’s now the Middle East certainly by 900 AD, and likely much earlier. They arrived on tremendous ships as tradesmen, and as the famed and fabled Varangian Guard. And as raiders, when it suited them.
And speaking of Norsemen, they dominated in areas where we today find Richard III’s haplogroup. Dollars to donuts one of the Norse, who would later become a Norman, brought back an Orthodox (Christian) wife (or slaves) from that area, and so entered Richard’s haplogroup. This is more likely than that Cecily Neville, known for her piety, had a quickie with a butcher.
TRACEY: With so many different ethnicites in your blood, you just might be related to all the royalty of Europe! Girl, get out there, and start asking for family favors!
BILL: For “a viable family tree,” we must use online resources only to gather clues. Many of these resources will lead us down false trails, and however wonderful those trails may seem, they are false. Some will lead to the documentation required to be fairly certain our family trees are correct, but we won’t know until we get the documentation. I was just reading someone’s family tree that covers my direct ancestors. I was hoping to find new clues, but instead found they got a number of facts wrong–and this is for information less than 200 years ago; imagine how far off the mark a few more centuries can take us.
And as for the Plantagenets’ claim to descent from Joseph of Arimathea, they couldn’t possibly have known, and it’s highly unlikely. Ambitious rulers and would-be rulers are well known to have fudged their pedigrees, in order to “prove” they were rightly appointed by God. It was all about their image, and lineage was image. Bunch of liars. Heh. And that’s even assuming the near-impossible: no paternity breaks, ever. (There’s a paternity–well, maternity–break in the line of the current Queen of England, and *cough* it was recent *cough.*)
As for male lines of descent, that goes father to son to grandson, and so forth. The question is: How many women must we turn to, to continue back to the Plantagenets? Meaning, how many married-ins must we jump through? There are millions of males descended from the Plantagenets, but apparently no direct-line males. Even if there were, nothing would change, since Henry VII won the throne, making Richard III the last of Plantagenets, and the last of the House of York, to rule England.
Anyone have a putative ancestor born in a Welsh castle?
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
You just maybe right that I am descended from just about all the royalty of Europe as in my family tree I have royalty from Portugal, Spain France (valois and Capet) England (Plantaganet) German, Checoslovakia, Ukrania , Sicily and Hungary and according to my DNA I have all these enthncities especially French ,, Flemish , Italian German and Hungarian which are the most modern, As I go back further I have DNA from all over Europe including the Scandanavian Viings from Norway, Sweden and even Iceland. (I wondered why I was,getting so many DNA matches from Scandanavia and now I know why) Even my maternal aunt looks just like Mathilda of Flanders who married William the Conquerer and she is only about 4 ft 9. I showed her a picture and she was surprised at the resemblance, My son has Asperger and I know that some of the Kings also suffered from this as it is usually passed down paternally, Its all very freaky considering my son is a staunch republican. Im kind of on the fence but I can see some freaky resemblences down the line on the maternal side. i wouldn´t like to claim that I am from all these people I have read about in the history books but DNA is a lot more powerful than a My Heritage or Find my past family tree.I suppose the DNA just clears up any doubts I had. At the end of the day they were just flesh and blood who happened to get to an important position sometimes by murder, wars or succession.
garlichoney said:
Tracy, holy cow, woman! I’ve watched too many videos of other people doing their DNA tests, and you’ve got the most varied background I’ve seen. Think of all the royals you can wheedle into giving you — and me, naturally — a ride in a gilded carriage! My dream is about to come true — I can feel it! I’d suggest you start by ringing up Harry, but who really knows where that man is? Besides, Meghan scares me. I bet the Hungarians would be happy to oblige, but how does one say, “How ’bouts we go cruisin’ in your gilded wheels of the horse-drawn variety”?
As for royal bloodlines, it’s fun to think about, but let’s face it: It’s when we see a rare photo of one of our grandparent’s grandparents that we feel mesmerized. Or looking at old photos from when we were kids, and comparing those faces to the faces around us today, where we see a strong family resemblance we’d never given much thought to.
I’m reading a book written by an American man in 1910. He was born in Germany, & his family helped settled Texas, back when it was bang-bang shoot ’em up. I start looking a other families’ records in censuses from roughly his time (1850s-ish), and first puzzled over why I see five or six children in a family, all born in different places. Then it hit me: those families were settlers, and the places of birth and ages of the children help tell the story of their wagon train move westward. At one point, a mother had recently lost her husband, had a bunch of kids, and went right back to the next wagon train. She was a woman with a mission. Fascinating stuff, the lives of regular people. Her son became a well known Indian fighter. One of her granddaughters broke wild horses, not all that far away. Same sort of people as the early kings of Europe, only conquering nothing more than a plot of land for themselves, or a horse to trade.
As for the Viking connection, I’m listening to an audiobook called… uh… Viking something… hang on… The History of the Vikings: From the Baltic to Byzantium, by Chris R Fee, voted one of the 300 Best Professors in America by the Princeton Review. He draws from history, from ship building, from language (though his American accent of Danish and Old Norse is hilarious).
You can’t understand the Plantagenets without understanding the Vikings. Fee talks a mile a minute, fact-fact-fact, but it’s hard to put down.
Maybe you can offer the Hungarians to put Fee’s Viking History on loudspeaker when we’re riding merrily in the gilded cage. It’s a very good audiobook.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I started gettimg suspicious when I had hundreds of DNA matches from Iceland, Scandanavia, Ukrain, Hungary, well to cut a long list short just about every country in Europe, plus many in The US , Canda , New Zealand and Austrailia of course through immigration over the centuries, I,m originally from Rochester England but have lived in Madrid since 1987., Ive counted 24 ethnticities, the largest which is 40% from the 1500s being from Denmark, Celt., Frankish. Flemish, Saxon, Gaul Thuringi Avar, Longbards Belgae etc etc. cant even pronounce some of them, I had no idea that the Windors are in there too as well as all the existing royal houses of Europe but I suppose as the Winsors are descended from Germans like myself I suppose its not a surprise, My mothers side is very interesting as my great great grandfather came over from Jamaica as a free man whose ancestors were brought from West Africa and he married my English great great grandmother in the 1850s which must have been totally scandalous in conservative Victorian England, One of his sons (my great grandfather married an Irish woman and they had 14 kids (can´t image what breakfast time was like!) My maternal grandfather is from Kashmir and I have a lot of DNA from the Hunza vally which some consider the Shangri La on earth, its really beautiful and the people are known for their longevity although on my Irish side my great grandfather was born in 1866 and died in 1969 when I was 3! As havei such mixed genes I look more Spanish or Italian and although I have green eyes and black hair my skin is very white. I showed an aunt a picture of Mathilda of Flanders and she was surprised at the resemblance. My aunt is only about 4 ft 7 and this queen was one of the shortest in history, My research is based on census going back to early Victorian England and Ireland, birth, marriage and death certificated going back to the early 1500s, wills and testements, national archives, the book of Gonville and Ciuas college at Cambridge where 6 generations attended and they even have their name on a plaque on the wall as they were generous donators. Plus of course DNA
For me this has been a wonderful journey and I still have to investigate all these individuals which will take me probably the rest of my life..,
garlichoney said:
The paper trail you have! And your ancestors’ names on a plaque at Cambridge, for their donations. Now THAT is the sort of golden nugget I look for: those real-life events in the everyday lives of regular people that show their outstanding qualities.
But about that ride in the gilded carriage. You’ve got the connections; I’ve got the plan. You talk our way into the carriage, carry on with polite conversation, as high society people do, and I’ll snatch bits of the DNA. Practice sounding really posh when you exclaim, “Eeeooo! Look ovah theh-ah! Is that Sir Mick Jagger!” (They’ll all crane their necks for a look at Mick Jagger. You know it. I know it. They know it. I’ll be snipping bits of their hair and clipping their fingernails, so be ready to play Spot the Mick. (Heh. Little Irish joke there.) I’ll be undercover as your ladies’ maid, which will turn me invisible to their eyes. Be sure to call me Cholmondeley. Or Jones. Just stick to one surname.
We are going to solve the mysteries of royal lines of Europe. How do you feel about grave robbing ancient royal tombs?
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
HaHa, not a bad idea. I have just sent my father a DNA kit and he has just sent it of to a lab in Texas so I should get the results in about a month. What I really need to know is if the italian side plus the Russian, Baltic and all the rest are from my mother or my father. I-m pretty sure the Danish, Swedish, Norweigen and Icelandic Vikin are from my Irish father and I know the West African and Indian are from my mother without a doubt as my mother´s maternal grandmother was Irish and her Great grandmother was English and her father was from Kashmir and her great grandfather came over from Jamaica in the 1850s. Tthen there could be a bit from both so in the end I will have to send a kit to my mother too. This is costing me a small fortune as I have also uploaded my raw data to various other s to get not only a second opinion but a fourth , So far they have all come back with the same results but some seem to be more detailed and instead of just saying Italy they say Tuscany, Sicily and Sardinia,Which make it a lot easier when it turns out that you share DNA with the Medicis and Dukes of Tuscany. (which it actually did!) Ill keep you informed of my progress. This is like a giant jigsaw puzzle and I want to complete it.
garlichoney said:
Tracy, I wasn’t joking about watching other people spit in tubes and discuss their family trees, or when I said I’ve never heard of one person with such a wide and varied background. Where most of us have family trees, you’ve got a botanical garden!
If you can trace the last full- or half-blooded individual of each “race” (I use it like it used to be used, as in the French race, the Swedish race, etc.), then trace their movements in time to where they met the next family line, and keep tracking them closer and closer to YOU, that could be an interesting read. Toss in all the facts you can dig up on, say, the Hungarian guy who married the Swede with the strong Danish family background. Add details about items these people used, how they traveled — you know, turn your dry facts into a story.
You’ve got a free man from a sugar plantation (just a guess that’s where he was). His circumstances are fascinating. Why was he sold into slavery? Was his tribe at war with another tribe, who snatched him up? Or was he a victim of one of those tribes who made their living off capturing and selling people into slavery, or what? And his wife might have been the daughter of an Irish slave, or of a plantation owner, or a shopkeeper in the islands. Or did he, the African, take the first ship sailing the heck away from sugar, and just happened to land in England?
All that personal detail is fascinating.
Because your tree (*cough* botanical garden *cough*) is so varied, your story is interesting, powerful, and will appeal to a wide audience.
One ancestor, from each “race,” all the tidbits of info you can find on each, and then weave a story around it, or maybe just sketch each one’s life from where they began, to where they met up with the person they’d marry and start a family with, each individual with a chapter. Lots of ways of writing it, but your background is a writer’s goldmine.
Just a thought.
Medici, eh? I’d come right out and tell you those people were a bunch of weirdos, but seeing as you’re part Sicilian, I’ll hold my tongue, in order to keep it! Heh.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Talking about the non European side I do happen to know all the tribes as another DNA upload actually gave me the exact regions rather than just the country. On the African side I have the Mende tribe from Sierra Leon, The Akan tribe from Ancient Ghana who later moved to North Sudan. The Aka tribe from the Congo (a pygmy tribe which surprised me as my 17 year old son is 6tf tall although I´m only 5 ft 3 and his father is not very tall either). On the Indian side I have the Gujarati from the North West (Gandhi s territory) Kalash an Indo-Ayran branch from Pakistan),.Indus Valley Barusho who live near Kashmir and are known for their longevity and a writer called it the shangri la on earth. The women have white skin and green eyes and they are said to be descendants of Charles Magno. ´s soldiers who passed through there (this would tie in with my Frankish heritage as he was king of the Franks and I have quite a big percentage of Frank.Last but not least mid Turkic and Caucasan..People say I look Spanish or Italian as I have black hair but am very white with green eyes. It will take me years to investigate everyone but it could make Alex Halley´s book Roots look like Winne the Pooh! My great aunt who lived into her 90s told my mother that her and her sister had the deeds to a plantation but burnt them as there would have been arguments in the family (they were 14 brothers and sisters) That makes me think that maybe my great great grandfather who was born a free man as his surname was Alexander William Francis and the surname can mean two things, Frenchman or free man, My mother said that he was a baptist preacher and there is a small church in Kent with a stone plaque with his name on it, I have seen the church on internet but cant read the stone plaque. All I know about him was that he was born in Kingston Jamaica in 1837 and had a brother called Henry born in 1840 and they both came to live in Strood Kent England at the same time, Slavery was abolished in Jamaica in 1808. Don´t know anything about his parents or if they were slaves or maybe his afther was the plantation owner!. I do have a photo of my great grandfather who was born in 1875 and whose mother was white English and he married an Irish woman and I also have a photo of her. He looks like my uncle and she looks like my aunt. . Sorry this post is so long as I have almost written a book!
garlichoney said:
Alexander William Francis? Something isn’t tracking with that name. Three names? He would have been born 3 years after slavery was officially illegal, but something else stalled things until the year of his birth (1837): slaves 6 and under were free, as were those born after … either 1831 or 1834, I think (closed the tab, and have too many open to bother bringing it up again).
And what makes you think “Francis” can mean “free man”? I don’t see the connection via language. It once referenced Franks, but that was a thousand years ago. It became a man’s name, a patronymic surname, and a woman’s name somewhere along the line. But “free man”? Where does that fit in?
You know what I’m thinking? I’m thinking either Alexander William Francis was an indentured servant (colloquially known as “slaves,” and more often than not treated far worse; or the man’s name was Alexander William, and the family who owned his mother (or both parents) had the surname Francis.
When I checked the latter as a possibility, I found slave owners in Jamaica in the 1800s with the surname Francis.
But Francis sounds so Irish Catholic, and AWF became a Baptist preacher. Enter the Slave Rebellion, aka the Baptist Uprising (don’t quote me on those names, as I’ve closed the tab, but do a search and you’ll see what the Rebellion or Uprising was all about, including the year it took place): a heck of a lot of slaves were Baptists. But then, I reckon some of the plantation owners were (nominally) Baptists, too, not to mention the indentured servants. So being a Baptist named Francis still makes sense in the context of Jamaica in the 1830s.
One thing you can try is the special slave censuses from Jamaica. They ended in 1834, when slavery was officially, legally, this-time-we-really-mean-it ended, meaning our man is not listed, BUT… *drum roll* … we’ve got two men’s names to choose from — Alexander and William (baby might have been named after his father or a grandfather), and the possibility that Francis was the name of the plantation owners, so… https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Jamaica_Slavery and, since my quick look at the links provided there didn’t help me right away, I tried https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/1129/?f-80100003=Francis&f-80100003_x=1 . And also this https://www.geni.com/projects/Jamaican-Planters-Plantations-Portal/1776 .
His father might well have been a plantation owner, or the son of a plantation owner, or his father might have been an English, Irish, or Scottish indentured servant, or the local pub owner, or a swabbie on a merchant ship, out for a night of fun.
What brought AWF to England? Perhaps his father. Perhaps his father was an Englishman. Perhaps his mother was an indentured servant who survived her term of indenture, and then headed back to England. So many possibilities. . .
Alexander William Francis’s information is out there, somewhere. If he were the son of black slaves, at that time and place, he would have been registered somehow or another. If he were black and moved to a small town in England, he would have been noticed. If he preached, he was drawing attention. That tells me someone, somewhere recorded his information. That stone dedicated to him is one place to start. Contact the church in Kent, and ask if they have a stone with Alexander’s name on it. Ask them to give you any information on him they know of, or any suggestions they have on where to go for more information. And if they reply with, “Sorry, no idea! Good luck with your search!” then keep trying. Ask if they have any elderly parishioners they might ask about the stone, or if they could give you the contact information of the local library (librarians are a wealth of information).
And about those Hungarian Prince’s toenail clippings I’ll be snatching. . . YOU will be carrying them home. No way will I go through customs with the chance I’ll have to explain just why my luggage contains a sanitized vial of Hungarian toenail clippings!
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi. I have finally discovered something about my Jamaican born great great grandfather who was born in Kingston in 1837. He wasn´t a slave nor did he become a baptist preacher as I was told, I found the 1881 census of England and it states that at 49 he was a pensioner of the Royal Navy!He was living in a place I know which is called St Mary´s Island next to a mariner in Chatham Kent. I then visited the National Archives in Kew London and actually found 14 documents relating to him. He joined the RN on 21 May 1859 as an able bodied seaman (which meant that he already had 2 years experience at sea). His first ship was called the HNS Hastings which was on The River Medway in Chatham (where I was born), He had 20 years of continuous service and met my great great grandmother in Harwich Essex (also a port) , They married on 13, January 1877 and had 6 children.. I have downloaded all the original documents but some are difficult to see as the writing has faded,It does state that he was 5 ft 6, had a dark compexion, hazel eyes and black curly hair, The mystery part is that before my great aunt died at the age of 94 she told my mother that the family had a dark secret that unfortunatly she took to the grave, She did mention, however that she and her younger sister were in possesion of a deed to a plantation in Jamaica but they ripped it up to avoid arguments in the family because there were 14 siblings.She also mentioned that there was French in the family but didn´t go into detail- The surname of Alexander William was Francis which means French man and I have put my DNA through 4 different groups that match DNA relations from all over the world and I have hundreds of DNA matches from France, especially Normandy, Brittany, Calais and the Loire Vally. I´m guessing that maybe his father was a plantation owner. My mothers DNA results will be ready in about 10 days so maybe this could help me even more, The plot thickens!
garlichoney said:
OOPS! I forgot to ask you which DNA detection service you used. They seem to have done a thorough bit of work.
Oh, and those Indus Valley Burusho people intrigued me. Have you seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgqc10_pyWQ
I don’t trust every video I watch, or article I read, so I won’t vouch for the information in the video, but the comments below it are revealing. In short, rumor has it the Burushos are descended from Alexander the Great’s Albanian troops. (That name, Alexander, keeps popping up in your history. Coincidence, of course, but still. . . )
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
The original DNA test I did with My Heritage which is a company based in Israel. I then uploaded it to My living DNA in The UK and they actually broke it down into regions instead of just countries which gave me a lot more information and actually coincided exactly with my family tree in England which also had just about every region except for a small part in the south West of England They also broke the African and Indian parts down into exact places and tribes and instead of just saying Italy they said Tuscany and Sicily etc. I then uploaded to DNA land which I think is based in The USA and they gave me the same results as Living DNA, Finally I got a 4th opinion from a lab based in Switzerland called My true ancestry which has been the most informative and they give you 59 hours for free and then you can decide if you want to pay the 53 euros and have an upgrade to a deeper investigation- which of course I did. This gave me all my ancient etnicities from Neolithic up to medieval and then from modern times. That is when I discovered that I had over 20 different ethnicities ranging from Portugal to Russia. They also give you all the royal houses that your haplogroup belongs to and a little coat of arms so that you can click on it and see what kings and queens share some of your DNA. I have just about all the rooyal houses in Europe including The Romanofs. To futher my investigations My Heritage , My living DNa and DNA land also send you DNA matches from people all over the world that share a segment of your DNA and could be from 3rd to 8th cousins. I was surprised how many French,German Russian and Eastern European names there were and one who lived in Canada was actually born in the same town where the Romanofs were murdered Ekartintiberg (or something like that) probably just a coincidence like so many I have come across but nonetheless a little spooky. I,m waiting on the results of my father´s test with My heritage and then I can upload for free on all the other above mentioned sites. I´m a bit of a disbeliever with just using one site so choose to use four to check that it wasn´t all a scam, I suppose in all I have spent about 260 euros on tests and then I paid a one years supscription of 159 euros to do my family tree with my heritage as they give you access to billions of census from th early 1800sto the present, Births, marriages and death certificates, from 1535 to the preset,wills and testements, archives, old books and documents , tombe stones etc etc and anything else that can be used as proof, They also send you coincidences that you can check or reject of family members and you can also compare family trees with thousands if not millions of other users but I have noticed that some users have very inaccurate family trees such as putting the siblings instead of putting their children etc. I don´t trust people just because they claim to be a dircet ancestor or cousin of some king or queen, I need proof and the only real way of confirming such a claim is of course thorough DNA, Lets wait and see what my father´s results say. Is the Italian and Russian from my mother or from my father??
garlichoney said:
Tracey, I can’t believe I haven’t answered this; I thought I had. Bah! Sorry I’ve taken so long.
Excellent strategy, the way you’ve used various tests, not just one.
Your mistrust of others’ charts is well placed! Someone changed all the information on one website, on my mother. This person removed all the correct information, and changed it from my mother, to a woman with the same married name as my mother’s (unusual) maiden name. The other woman is not even blood, let alone my mother. So aggravating to have to change it all back, then send her a message, and then find out that her monkey business had led to wrong information being put on microfiche.
How often has this happened? Likely often, despite some of these people still living. Imagine how messy this information is from the past! Eek! This goes to amateur historians who’ve written books that cover various families — how many errors have they made, because, let’s face it, they wanted to write a book, but don’t have a background in proper documentation of original sources?
Ah, well. I see everything but original source material as nothing more than possibilities. But a DNA test. . . Now, THAT is harder to screw up! And your strategy is a good one.
Thanks for sharing this with the world.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Just got my Irish fathers DNA back and thinking of buying him a metal helmet with wooden horns, Turns out he has a lot of Scandanavian viking especially Danish with Swedish, Islandic and Norweigan thrown in for good measure, Turns out the Hungarian, Checkoslovakian and Italian are actually from my father and not my mother.Turns out he also has some English DNA from The Chedder man of Somerset so thats his new nickname! As a process of elimination the Russian and Ukraine must be from my mother, Ran the raw data through 4 other companies and they all came up with more or less the same, The only difference is that My heritage only goes back 6 generations whereas My true ancestory goes back to Neolithic times so you get the ancient ancestors and not just the recent. Ill probably end up buying my mother a dna kit just to be 100% sure and see if there are any surprises. I know that my DNA is a mixture of both parents but the only way to know who has each entniticity is by giving both parents the test.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Just thought I would give you an update on how my DNA match research is going, I have found and been in touch with a thrid cousin who shares 32 cM, 4 shared segments with the longest segment being 10.5cM which may not sound like a lot but prooves that we are related somewhere down the line. Her surame is Fitzhugh and she lives in The USA. I looked at her family tree and we seem to share a lot of coincidences from the 1200s and onwards especially with the Nevilles, Constables and Willoughbys which of course all go back or are related to the Platagenents one way or another. I am now trying to disover who our common ancestor was, This and a few other DNA matches from Flanders , Haunult Normandy , Brittany and some in Italy and Germany are also helping me to put a geographical map together of where my ancestors lived. I have also found a DNA match with ancestors in Hanault with the surname Roet which makes me think of John of Gaunts wife. Geographical locations are also very important in discovering who your ancestors were and if they coincide with your family tree then even better. In order to do a more accurte family tree you cannot just rely on documents and hearsay.- DNA matching is a must and can open up a whole new world for you, as I have discovered.
Bill said:
Hey Tracey,
I learned about DNA fingerprinting and it’s something you should look into. This is how the law figures out who perpetrators are or who’s parents are who’s.
And truly a fascinating subject for the genetic genealogist to study.
In my case, I found a study of the ancients who published the DNA fingerprints. While I have the same paternal SNPs of those ancients, If my DNA fingerprint matches them, makes him my direct paternal grandfather, ancient or not.
X chromosomes are to women what Y chromosomes are to men. They too can be traced for thousands of years.
My subject lived in 1700BC. If our paternal prints match, that’s a grandfather definitively.
DNA fingerprinting is not something I’ve encountered in my genetic genealogy research until recently. But if my theory is right DNA fingerprinting is another tool for the genetic genealogist.
easyDNA.com is one such company who does these tests.
garlichoney said:
Tracey, your DNA is like reading an engaging history book.
Oh, and it means we’ll have to travel around even more, putting our plan into action. What was our plan again? Let’s see, you were going to hobnob with your royal relatives, and I’d be your maid. Oh, right: You’ll distract them with extremely well mannered conversation, while I’ll sneakily clip their nails and hair for DNA. Hm. I’m at a loss when it comes to remembering the point of the plan. We were planning on outing any bastards, and muscling in on their ill-gotten inheritances? That’s not a bad plan, but I don’t think that was THE plan. Hm.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I dont remember if I updated you on my Jamaican great great grandfather who came over to England in 1877. By help of a member of wiki tree I discovered through documents in the National Archive in Kew London that my black grandfather was not a slave and when he was 20 he joined the Royal navy in 1857 and did 20 years continuous service and recieved a RN pension which I got from the census, He married my white English gg grandmother in 1877. I have all the original documents and one even describes him as 5 ft 6 with hazle eys and brown curly hair.. I have also found DNA matches with family in Jamaica and on their family trees it goes back to Sheltland and Orkney Ises in Scotland with many having the surname Sinclair who I actually already have on my family tree and they were Lords and one of them married the daughter of the King of Norway and they were originally from ST Clair in Normandy or Britanny and came over with William the Conquerer, There is also a connection with Rollo the viking and he is also on my family tree, I suppose thats why i have hundreds on DNA matches from Normndy and Britanny stretching over many centuries. On the Indian side I have discovered that many where Romany gipsies who immigrated to Romania, Transylvannia, Poland Finland and many places in the Baltic and Eastern European. (they also mixed with the natives, hence many dna matches with Baltic and Eastern Europeans) It makes sense as my grandfather was from Cashmir and over 1500 years algo the North West Indians(romanies and Kales, started to immigrate (not from Egypt as many still believe but from NW India) i even look a bit gypsy as I have green eyes , long black hair but very white skin. On my father´s side I have the Fitzgeralds and the OBriens with a sprinkling of Stuarts .
Bill said:
Hey Garlichoney, If it were that simple, I wouldn’t even be bothering people. You have made such simplicity out of my 15 years of research.
I didn’t just wake up one day to discover my discoveries, I’ve known it all my life, my grandfathers knew it too. My grandfather’s name was Stanley D Warren…
His wife is traceable to the Stewarts of Scotland. One thing I’ve learned about genealogy families tend to hang around each other through the centuries.
The book “The King’s Son, 2nd ed,” has me as their Plantagenet connection. Though Brad and I had a falling out because I didn’t like all the contract terms. Brad contacted me to continue his research as my Y DNA was within his family members. At the time, Brad seemed to feel I am who I say I am. I’d hate to dis his experience as well. Brad’s been at this longer than I have.
He even arranged a DNA test with Prof. Turi King and I. Her site claims she’s tested the Beauforts and the Somersets, even a Patrice DeWarren, which that mention got me to this ERH site.
The Mormons put my grandfather’s family tree together. Personally, would hate to call them liars.
Yet Robert Sepehr, an anthropologist, claims blondes are the true arabs in a video about a black box. Yet the dragon bloodline explains this monarchy stuff. My DNA originated in the north fertile crescent, 25,000 years ago. I also have Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Ethiopian genetic cousins. Seems traceable to King Solomon at least, ain’t got there yet.
Look up “a Light in the West,” on YouTube.
In the Mabinogion, Bran the Blessed and Joseph of Arimathea were in-laws. Joseph even “buried the Christ at Glastonbury.” If Joseph was really part of the Arthurian legends, seems this Christ, may have been Merlin.
According to Warren Woden Foster “The name Arthur is found in no other family with such occurrence.”
The DeWarenne family motto refers to not Jesus Christ, but King David. The crest actually matches Israel’s to some extent. The Jews refer to the Lion of Judah as King David.
Sparta’s 300 also has a “Lion King,” King Leonidas. Seems Lions refer to kings of the era. The DeWarenne’s were a Norman family, their bloodline died out long ago paternally. After 5th Earl the DeWarenne’s were an Angevin family paternally. Hamelin was Henry II’s oldest half brother.
The dude who runs this site won’t let us post pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words, I have 8 or 9 picture of ancient and modern family. Almost like vampires in “What We Do in the Shadows,” tv show. It’s CREEPIE! and I’m not a Vampire, no offense to those that are :-D.
There is also a “not so much,” Warren family. Ever heard the song “Jeepers Creepers,” by Harry Warren? His family changed their name to “Warren,” when they migrated to America.
“Warren,” is a Norman/ English name seems everyone wants to forget about. It’s not as common as you think. Genealogy lines get smeared and lost when tracing Smiths or Johnsons. Warren is fairly cut and dry.
Richard III’s haplo group is G-P287, mine is R-M269, which makes King George VI’s R-M269. Brad’s and my research met in an R-M269 study group. It is also presumed Rh Neg blood is of royal blood as well…
So to win a throne from a king, I thought the losing party had to be a king by divine right, as well a winning party divine right king. Seems only half of that was met.
The Stuarts (however slimy they were) seemed to understand this divine right to the throne, seems the English Warren’s understood that. I’m not sure which Arthur Warren it was but Cromwell jailed him for two years, even though Arthur was a Royalist.
The King James version of the bible was from a Stuart.
Where ever answers are found so are more questions. Where there are more questions I know more answers are to be found, at least from the last 25,000 years in my paternal lineage. My Librarian grandma always said “answers are found in books.” Wherever there’s writing so will be an answer.
garlichoney said:
How much genetic material did I get from my grandparents? How about from my 20th great-grandpa? And how many ancestors do I have in every generation, anyway? I’ll get to this fascinating bit of our personal history in a bit. Until then—
Bill, I did not mean to cast doubt on your research; it was Turi herself who you said told you that you need a “viable” family tree; i.e., you need original source material—documentation. Every clue we discover must be checked until it’s verified or falsified, and only if verified, added to our family tree.
After skimming through the relevant part of The King’s Son, 3rd ed., it seems the author was under the impression you were a Plantagenet. Your DNA shows you are not, though you are related to Henry VI? How? How could you have Henry’s blood type? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood you. I see your haplogroup is the most prevalent among European men (wow, especially in Wales!). Richard’s wife, Anne Neville, had one child, a boy, who died at the age of ten. Both Richard III’s wife and mother were considered pious women. How did Henry VI get the same haplotype as yours? I’m confused.
Why is the Rh negative blood group considered “royal blood”?
By Jeff Menegas, Used to be a lab tech, grew up to be a gynecologist
“To sum it up, Rh- blood is not royal blood” – It’s a fascinating read, by someone who explains blood types in an easy-to-grasp manner. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-Rh-negative-blood-group-considered-royal-blood?share=1
Check out this Warren guy for a family resemblance: http://www.nccg.org/warren3.html I can’t vouch for anything he says, but he might be a clue on the trail of your ancestors.
The King James version was a translation done at the behest of King James VI & I. It’s quite the work of art, isn’t it? People from all faiths and no faith read it and are blown away by the beauty of the language as it combines with the depth of meaning. Truly a magnificent read.
The de Warrene’s use of the Lion of Judah, unless it’s recent (the past 200 years or so), refers to Christ. They were all Christians back then. I don’t see why this would be a problem; there were no Jews in the area to speak of. Israel now uses the Lion of Judah, but not as an emblem of King David; the Lion of Judah refers to Judah, son of Jacob, hence to the tribe of Judah (one of the 12 tribes, if you believe the Old Testament), yet “Lion of Judah” is many times revealed as one of the many Old Testament types and shadows that refer to Christ. (See the Warren link, above; he says the same thing I have about the family motto.) To European royals, it has always been understood to stand for Christ, since at least the time Rollo converted. If you’re a Warren descended from the de Warrenes, then that is part of your heritage. I’ve discovered a few things about my ancestors that were de rigueur at the time, but I don’t hold the same values. I’m not the least bothered by it. In fact, I find it fascinating, because those people’s beliefs and behaviors are what eventually led to me.
The first Jews came to England around the late 11th century, mainly as merchants and money lenders, but the money lenders (loan sharks) ruined the party for everyone (don’t they always?). All the Jews, not just the hated money lenders, were booted out two centuries later. Another four centuries passed before they were again allowed back in (blame the money lenders), so, again, unless the de Warrene motto is a recent adoption, it refers to Christ.
Warren is a common surname. A quick search shows its common in England, Ireland, and the US, and that surnames from around the world have been anglicized as Warren. There are a lot of Warrens, just in the US alone, and despite sharing a surname, they are not all related. Here’s a possible trail: You list a lot of Jewish blood. As DNA testing only shows back maybe 500 years or so, your Jewish blood is fairly recent (especially the Ashkenazi), meaning it’s possible you had a Jewish Warner, Weiner, or similar, enter England in the 17th or 18th century, and anglicize the family name. When I make an assumption, it is based off cold, hard facts. For example, perhaps a fairly close male ancestor arrived to England from Poland (lots of blonds there, and Ashkenazim tend to have huge amounts of Polish blood, according to a couple of DNA studies I’ve read). A quick search of Polish surnames lends credence to this idea as a strong possibility: WAWRZYNIAK or WIERCIŃSKI . Those names might fly in the US today, but in the 20th century England? 19th century? 18th? The guys at England’s equivalent to Ellis Island would have anglicized such names to Warren or Warner or Wiener, etc., or, if over a century ago, the individual himself would have done it, to aid his assimilation, and his business. John: Great shirt, Jake! Who’s your tailor? Jake: Oh, well, that’s what you might call a long story…with a lot of consonants. John: No, really; what’s his name? Jake: *heavy sigh* Oh, just follow me. (The tailor hears of this, and quickly enlists the help of a painter, and soon puts up a sign reading, “Warren’s Bespoke Menswear.” Anglicizing surnames was common practice.
All people of 100% European descent are related to European royalty. People with as little as 80% English blood are likely to descend from Edward III. The presumption of connections is based on statistics, but if true, those blood connections were from centuries ago. This means no one today will gain one iota of anything by proving they are, “the one true King; the true and rightful heir.” That “rightful king” from Australia knew this. When a camera crew approached him to break the news to him, he laughed them off, stating, “I’m a Republican!” A true Aussie spirit! Was the “true heir” to the British throne even a direct male descendant? Unlikely, though I don’t recall if he was a Tudor or a Plantagenet or what. That means his line probably jumped at some point from a man to his son, to his son, to his son’s sister + her husband, or his son’s daughter + her husband, at least once. How many women are in the line? How many female breaks are in your male lineage? One woman can look good on paper, but mess up the lineage in reality. (And this is assuming there were no illegitimate children, which there almost certainly were, somewhere down the line.)
All Europeans are of “royal” lines, yet inherited roughly nothing from them genetically. What’s interesting is to document (not by looking at error-riddled websites, but through getting the documentation) the lines and the lives of the people who gave us genetic material—and that goes back roughly to our great-great-great-grandparents, then fizzles out to naught.
All true Englishmen are descended from the Edwards, but not one true Englishman today shares the Edwards’ genetic material. You asked in an earlier post if the Plantagenet line was prone to PTSD. Clearly not; they would not have reached the heights they did, were they prone to PTSD (which is a combo of biology and upbringing and circumstance, like most of life). Some English royals were considered mad, and some truly were mad, but you needn’t worry about going nuts like your 15th or even 10th great-granddad, as you haven’t got any of their genetic material (nor the insanity-causing STDs the mad kings might have had).
How much genetic material did I get from my grandparents? How about from my 20th great-grandpa? And how many ancestors do I have in every generation, anyway? Take a look: http://dgmweb.net/Ancillary/OnE/NumberAncestors.html
What about your grandparents? What were their lives like? How far back do you need to go to have an ancestor who had never heard of electricity? Not very far back. What were your ancestors doing, prior to electricity? How did they live? Those are the lives we need to dig around in, both for inspiration, and for our genetic material.
I’ve found a gem of a book online, which pretty much describes the lives of pioneers in Texas around the 1850s or so, written in 1910 by a man who lived it all. Loads of cowboys and Indians, the pony express, and other fascinating details of life back then. It’s a fun read, and an eye opener. Americans will get a taste of how their recent ancestors lived. Remove the cowboys, Indians, and pony express, and it applies fairly well to most Westerners living in 1850: https://archive.org/stream/texaspioneerearl00santrich/texaspioneerearl00santrich_djvu.txt
Finally, collect your family stories. Write them all down (perhaps on the blog you might be considering starting). Start checking out the veracity of those stories. You can add footnotes to any stories you find solid proof for. Include all the memories of your family members. Maybe ask them to all write down at least one memory of the oldest family member they can remember having met. Ask for copies of photos. Upload it all on your blog. You can start your own Family Book this way. And you can always print out a copy, or email your compilation to family at Christmas or Hanukkah, or on their birthdays—and then kindly ask for more stories!
Tracy Armstrong said:
Haha! I’m not sure I could call any favours in after all this time! 😂
garlichoney said:
Tracy, I have a personal agenda: I want a ride in a gilded carriage. For me, Tracy! Ask around for me! (Heck, I’d hide in your luggage for a ride in a gilded carriage. Just set me up close to a window, so I can peep out.)
Brandy Fullerton said:
You had me until you started speaking of where Blonde hair originated. Scandinavia was populated by people with blonde hair that were from the Eurasian steppes. Time didn’t just start one thousand years ago and people didn’t sprout from the soil in Scandinavia. People with blonde hair were all over Eurasia, the near east (middle east), northern Africa, Americas and elsewhere. I recommend Atlantean Gardens channel on YouTube. The content creator is an anthropologist. Extremely educating and enlightening channel.
garlichoney said:
Brandy. I can’t see my comment, though I admit it was hastily written, and sloppy put. Blond hair, as far as the context of this discussion (Plantagenets) go, originated in Scandinavia, and certainly not in Arabia. Moving backwards in time, from England to Normandy, to *disagreements on %-ages here* Norwegians &/or Danes &/or Swedes. Prior to that *disagreements on direction* from areas southwest of Denmark, along the north of Germany, and thereabouts, OR from the east, including the Eurasian steppe. Then again, perhaps it started in the Pacific Islands.
Yes, a thousand years ago–far more, in fact–Scandinavians were everywhere, even rowing down to Arabia, and taking rivers (and when not possible, carrying their ships over land) into Russia. The more we learn of Viking ship building, and how they popped up all over the place, the more we understand where certain pockets of lighter hair originated.
But again, I was sloppy in not simply stating that blonds did not originate in Arabia, and that, as far as Plantagenets go, they originated in Scandinavia.
Thanks for pointing that out.
James Sinor said:
I thought blonde hair and pale skin were a result of evolution. Less sunlight versus African countries for instance.
Brandy Fullerton said:
Evolution (if even reality) would take way too long for a sub Saharan African to have pale descendants. This would need to happen in one generation otherwise the children would die from not being able to absorb enough sunlight to produce the hormone we call vitamin D. What is called the “out of Africa theory” has been debunked genetically and anthropologically. DNA shared between Eurasians and sub Saharan Africans are due to the DNA being brought INTO Africa and not the reverse. See here the explanation from an anthropologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tck170_9HTM&t=3s He also has other videos that add to this.
garlichoney said:
Blond hair, due to less sunlight…until you look at Eskimos. As a kid, I learned dinosaurs roamed the earth x-number of years ago. As an adult, that number of years ago had greatly increased. I leave the fanciful hypotheses to researchers striving to make a name for themselves (and get the coveted grant money). Their ideas will continue to change until the day we get hard evidence that reveals what really happened. Until then, ask yourself this: If you put a tribe of Africans in Norway to live out their lives, how long would it take for them to turn into fair-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Norwegians? No fair intermarrying; I mean do so naturally.
Someone will pipe up with, “That’s not how evolution works!” Yes, and no. That’s exactly how it’s taught to us, if we’d only draw out things to their logical conclusions. But “evolution” is really a loss of information. Oh. That sounds like devolution. Well, I don’t want to keep anyone from their grant money, so I’ll just hush up now.
garlichoney said:
Just checked Robert Sepehr’s channel on Youtube. I checked it some time ago. Too woo-woo for me. I’m not impressed.
garlichoney said:
Ah. Now that I’ve gone back through the comments, I see I wrote that blonds are native to Scandinavia, which they are. You thought I mean they originated there.
No one knows where any of us originated, though everyone and his brother has their own thoughts on it.
As for Sepehr, I can’t find his credentials online. As he claims to be an anthropologist, a linguist, and a paleobiologist (sometimes listed as specializing in the last two fields), I thought there would be a few articles about him, plus at least a few studies done by him, online. I can’t seem to find anything. Do you have any links to articles about him, or to papers he’s published? Or maybe you remember reading at which university(-ies) he got his degree(s). I draw only blanks.
I have found a number of places where Sepehr is accused of plagiarism, and of mixing facts with fiction, without drawing clear lines between the two, but detractors will say anything, so I’m interested in learning where he was educated, which papers he’s written, if anyone’s written articles about him or his finds, etc.
Iceberg said:
Everyone with any good amount of English blood is descended from the Edwards; the exception is the unusual. To be a direct descendant of any merit, however, you must be descended straight down the male line, and be able to prove it.
That said, none of the popular genealogy websites demand proof of anything, and neither does the Mormon church, which is behind much of online genealogy. This means that, unless you have copies of original sources for the births, deaths, and marriages of your ancestors, consider your ancestry, according to those websites, fictional, because it is.
Hollie said:
Edward I is my 23rd great grandfather.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Me too. I seem to have all the royal hoses of Europe in my family tree but of course just doing a familly tree is not enough. I backed mine up with a DNA test then run it through at least 4 others to see if they all coincided (which they did) Knowing your halpogroup is another way of backing up your claim, Also you can check your DNA matches with relatives alive today that have done the DNA test and have the same surname that you have on your tree such as Bohun, Beaufort, . Hastings, Stafford, Tudor, Windsor etc etc that will help back up your claim. I ended up with a subclade genetic distance of 1 in many royal houses but a 0 is a better match going all the way to a 4 which is a bigger genetic distance than a 0. So far I havent got any 0 just 1s 2s and 3s so I suppose I am more the branches, twigs and leaves rather than the trunk of the tree. I think we also have to take into consideration that European royalty are not going to have a lot of English DNA as they were descended from Scandanavian vikings, French , Russian , Flemish,. Dutch, German etcI do have all these ancient enthicities in my DNA, Another coincidence could be if you have any mental illness in the family as some kings were considered “mad” at the time. I carry the gene for bi polar and szhizoprenia but luckily have no signs of it. Unfortunatly my son wasnt so lucky and it looks like I passed on those unfortunate genes.. Does this make me descended from royalty? i really dont know.. I dont have the word Lady or Duchess before my name just a simple Miss and I dont live in a castle either. You can also try to investigate the geographicresidence of your ancestors as this will give you some cluse as to if they coincide with where royalty lived at the time,Ive also contacted a few DNA matches by e-mail which have backed up my claim. Try to do as much investigation as you can , Hope this helps.
Tracy Armstrong said:
They’re my 25th, 24th and 23rd great grandfathers. 👋
Jonathan Rodman said:
Im not cousins I’m decebdent of the line that fled 1580s. I am a De Redmayne known as Redman. Currently portions of this estate from Harewood that were divided among Redman and ryther families currently is in abeyance. Tried in parliament in 1890 returned to abeyance.
I am also a Tripp (name changed by king Henry following battle of roses previosly house of Howard) I am also a Carroll as O’Carroll of Ireland.
Redman is older an older barony then plantangent. They are also decendents of William lancaster’s only legitimate daughter.
Thier castle at harewood was discovered buried under the house of treasure with the table still set. Arch Dig 2006
Arc dig 2016 has discovered Knowles/hazards family buried in Road Island.
Redmans owned Barbados, Block island. Nargasset island. 1620 proven.
This however conflict some accounts of first settlers. Block island historic society agrees. They are holding 400 acres of it and have also deed traced it back via land transfers.
Jonathan Rodman said:
http://cybergata.com/roots/2198.htm
Michael Plantagenet said:
Greetings cousin! They are mine as well… although Plantagenet is not my real last name.
Michael Plantagenet said:
Greetings cousin. Cool! They are my great grandfathers as well… (Maud [Beauchamp] de Clifford is my 18th great grandmother). Yes, indeed the male Plantagenet line is alive and well!
liamfoley63 said:
But don’t you claim your descent from the Plantagenet line is through female descendants?
Lynne Sumner said:
Very concise and interesting account. Thank you. Is anything known about today’s descendants of the powerful Neville family? Also the Woodville/ Grey family?
Kalim said:
I’m a Neville descendant
Salisbury said:
That is far less likely; to the extent that such a statement would need to be demonstrably proven.
Kalim said:
Neville descendants came to early to America to do business and of course are here. Funny how the English must be writhing knowing there are probably just as many Brit Royal descendants in the US as in the UK.. it’s all documented & (already proven). Many of this country’s (Revolutionary) founding fathers were wealthy descendants of Royal and noble UK lineages.
Jill Ellis-Overstreet said:
I am a Neville decedent as well, living in America
S.E. Smith said:
I’m a Neville descendant who is an American. My line can be traced through Philip Nelson, a colonist in 17th century Massachusetts. There are Canadian lines also–this was how the mitochondrial DNA was proven in the Richard III discovery.
Brandy Fullerton said:
I am a direct descendant of Katherine Neville (sister of “the kingmaker” as we call him today) through her daughter Cecily Bonville. 🙂 I live in New Orleans in America 🙂 Hello cousins!
Ragged Staffer said:
Funny how the ony thing that the English are ‘writhing’ over is the fact that they no longer have to put up with minibrains such as Kalim.
Allison said:
I am a Neville descendent living in America. I had always heard the name in our family and never thought about it until I started researching it. We are descended from Ralph Neville and Joan Beaufort, therefore, John of Gaunt. I have always been interested in English history and was thrilled to learn my family was a part of major history that played out in England.
Allison said:
Just want to add the Neville line starts at my 5th great-grandfather, James B. Neville.
Kayte Carr said:
Yes, my mom has found over 20 patriots of the revolutionary war from my line of the Plantagenets. They came into Virginia in the 1600’s and 1700’s. Also, check out the last Huguenot church in the US. It’s in Charleston SC. It has a plaque with the list of about 25 presidents who are related to Huguenots.
Brandy Fullerton said:
I am a direct descendant of Thomas Grey, son of Elizabeth Woodville. 🙂
Michael McDermott said:
I too belong to this group. Interesting everyone should get a blood test and share the Genes. Be nice to get a credit card. Hmm.
Jocelyn Bisshop said:
Mine too through Margaret Pole(Plantagenet) daughter of Isabel Nevill and through Cecily Neville and George Duke of Clarence.
Kevin Lewis said:
There is another line of the Plantaganets still alive, and it is a legitimate line. It is the Warren family, descendants of Earl Hamelin Plantaganet. His descendants, some of my ancestors, have used the surname Warren.
Georges said:
You are correct. The Counts de Warren of France are male line descendants of Henry II Plantagenet’s (natural) brother Hamelin Plantagenet who legally changed his name to Hamelin de Warren upon his marriage to the Warren heiress. He became Earl of Warren, Sussex and Surrey in right of his wife and was already Viscount of Touraine in his own right.
rayjwarren said:
Incorrect, the “Counts” De Warrene are Normans not French, I should dearly like to see how that line survived and what were the children from his marriage to Isabel De Warrene
Sir Kevin Parr, Baronet Kendal said:
Warren comes from keepers of rabbits for food supply to Norman Barons. One who is of high birth would not pin his name to his coney farmer serf. I cannot see your link in this. No connection can be made without hard fact copy. And if this is so what happened to titles?
Michael McDermott said:
One never knows and then one wonders? Geniweb provides the following lineage.My 24th. Gr.Grandfather, Richard Plantagent.Only in America would a family leave out or forget the connections to history and one’s own self. Other lines go back to Cleopatra, which makes for interesting contemplation at the movies and what Rights would one have to ancient diggings to the period and persons? I wonder how many people are today connected to this line?
Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall , “King of the Romans” is your 24th great grandfather.
Michael W. McDermott
→ Wayne Irvin McDermott
your father → Jessie Adeline McDermott
his mother → Jonathan Asbury Rush
her father → Christian F Rush
his father → Silas Rush
his father → Peter Rush, Jr
his father → Peter Rush, Sr.
his father → Elizabeth Rush (Lewis)
his mother → Elizabeth Isabelle Warner
her mother → Col. Augustine Warner II
her father → Augustine Warner, Sr.
his father → Elizabeth Warner (Southerton)
his mother → Ann Southerton
her mother → Ursula Peck
her mother → Ellen Gibbon
her mother → John Audley, of Aldithley
her father → Elizabeth Malet
his mother → Sir Philip Courtenay, of Powderham and Molland
her father → Joan Agnes de Champernown
his mother → Sir Alexander Champernon, Kt.
her father → Sir Richard Champernon, Knight and Sheriff of Devonshire
his father → Thomas Champerknowne
his father → Sir Richard Champernowne, of Modbury
his father → Richard Champernoun, Knight
his father → Joan Okeston of Cornwall, Heiress of Modbury
his mother → Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall , “King of the Romans”
her father
rayjwarren said:
Have no idea why you have so many “her fathers£ with female names and vice versa but can assure you that Geni Web are just sitting there without researech and a writing down what people report and what others want to hear. Unless you can prove via proper DNA [you need an originator] then you must discard wht you have seen and heard as bunkum.
RJW researcher
Lesley said:
I’ve read that Cleopatra had no children
liamfoley63 said:
Cleopatra had 4 children
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I´ve done my family tree about 5 times and it always goes back to Rollo the viking ., John of Gaunt and Katherine Roet and then all the way through the Plantagant line just like millions of other people of European descent. The only real way of knowing if all this is true is my matching your DNA with lets say Richard III which I have not done. I know that I have English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh , italian, Easten European and Baltic roots from my DNA test but this proves nothing about my so said ancestors, I do have quite a lot of Constables from the 1500s and they are related to the above mentioned. The only real proof I have is that one of my ancestors Reverend Simon Canham taught his cousin Robert Constable at Cambridge as I have looked in the official Gonville and Ciaus college book from 1349 to the 1800s and it clearly mentions that they were cousins and according to myheritage my direct ancestor married Alice Constable whose name was also Simon Constable of Ashill Norfolk which would make her a grandmother which would mean that Robert constable was a cousin of my direct ancestor. I have , however no real proof that this marriage took place as cannot find a marriage certificate from around 1545 and am only going by wellknown platforms such as geni, wikitree, find my past, my heritage etc , I don´t know if these sites are 100% accurate but they do give you biirth marriage and death certificates. census and literature to back up the findings, Ive also discovered kind of by accident that some of my ancestors were part of the original Pilgrim fathers and later their desendants went on to be very famous, including the 4th and 12th president of the USA and General Robert Lee who I definatly do not admire as many were slave owners and white supremists, But as they say – You can choose your friends but not your family! If all my family tree is true, it is an interesting story of treachery. murder, jelousy, love etc- All the ingredients of a best seller!
Sherry said:
While the Warren Family are no less male line Plantagenet descendants, my recollection is that Hamelin Warren was the by-blow of Geoffrey of Anjou, thus making this line illegitimate
rayjwarren said:
Along with every other line ever recorded. It is insanity to believe that all were not bastards, before the Romans went through France, Germany and England, they knew not what a marriage was.
Bill said:
So I am a male line only descendant of Hamelin D’Anjou DeWarenne. On my father’s side my grandmother was a “Stewart” also. My “Y” DNA is posted on “ytree.net” (kit: 542289). I seem to have cousins that are “Shepherds.”
Seems I’m an illegitamate (from the other side of the sheets) from John DeWarenne 8th Earl. Seems this also includes Arthur Warren High Sheriff of Nottinghamshire 1600ish-1658. The crest Arthur brought with him say “Teredo,” some sort of archaic term for “oppressed.”
My mtDNA haplogroup (T2a1a2) also is in common with Czar Nicholas II. Queen Victoria is also my mother’s ancestor.
Back to yDNA, seems Count Geoffrey D’Anjou’s father Fulk was one of the 9 nobles that created the Knight’s Templar in 1118. Seems the St.Claire’s were Templars also. COA’s have similar symbology. The DeWarenne’s were Knight’s Hospitaller. Joseph of Arimathea is a Plantagenet ancestor, explains my Middle East and Cornwall connections.
Bill said:
Actually, I am a Warren too
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
St. Claire (or Sinclair) is on our maternal side and the Knights Templar has progressed likewise since then.
Kevin Lewis said:
Correction to my last post: Hamelin was an illegitimate son, but his line is still alive, though most folks don’t seem to know about it.
Bill said:
Um, I do know. Hamelin is my 24th(ish) great grandfather.
He was the 4th Earl of Surrey “by right of his wife,” Isabelle DeWarenne.
Anything else I should know? A DNA search revealed there’s not many of us males left, probably count them all on both hands, myself included.
Alisha said:
I am a descendant of the Neville family. I’m a direct descendant of Warwick the Kingmaker 🙂 as well as George, Duke of Clarence:) I’m very interested In English history as well
Salisbury said:
How.
hoodedman1 said:
Apparently George of Clarence has many descendants today. His wife was Isabel, the Kingmaker’s daughter, so anyone descended from George and Isabel will be related to Richard Neville.
Liz Penprase said:
The Abney-Hastings living in Australia are direct descendants of George, Duke of Clarence and his wife Isobel Neville through their daughter Margaret Pole, The Countess of Salisbury. Simon Abney-Hastings is the current Earl of Loudoun, he lives in Wangaratta I understand.
Paul Mulholland said:
I am lead to believe my surname Mulholland is Plantagenate however have never been able to confirm this. It is the surname of the Earls of Dunleath however. I am much intetested in the history of the time.
Ozpooers said:
You are a complete cretin.
Chris A. said:
I am a direct male descendant of Edwards I, II, and III. They are my 19th, 20th, and 21st great grandfathers. If I have researched it correctly, my 18th great grandfather was Thomas of Woodstock, Edward III’s fourteenth and youngest child. From there I am connected through the Stafford/Talbot/Dalton line.
billfoley63 said:
Thanks for your reply! There are many more direct male descendants of the Plantaganets than I thought!
Salisbury said:
It has been calculated that there are approximately 100 million descendants of Edward III alive today. Indeed, the likelihood of NOT being descended from him is 1.4×10[ttpo]-26.
billfoley63 said:
I am of mostly Irish descent….makes me wonder if I am a descendant too?
Michael McDermott said:
That is mind buggering. You know in biology we compete most with relatives because they are the most alike. Knowing there are at least 100 million people you are related to makes for some complicated visualizations, but what a family reunion could we have? Humans are closely related 99% the same, but the little differences and the degrees of connection through time and place is very interesting indeed.
Salisbury said:
Yep. AND Anglo-descendancy in the US!
Matthew J Warren said:
a Hamelin grandson here. 🙂 ( Warren, Plantagenet, Anjou, and some great Viking Kings following straight down the male line) And from Hamelin’s wife, straight to Charlemagne/ minus William the Conqueror (most likely a step father) who’s decent is also linked from Charlemagne. We fought hard for America’s Independence. We helped in the formation of the Harvard School of Medicine. We fought each other during the civil war. Most of us still possess great piety. Parts of the southern branch have Cheerokee Indian blood through Nancy Nooner. We also know that being a part of the dragon tree is not all that pretty, even leading some to never speak of it. 🙂 Maybe one of the best things is that we no longer have to name our children after Thomas Becket, thanks to beautiful forgiveness. 😉 Our crown is on hold for now.
garlichoney said:
I’ve heard the name of Nancy Nooner many times, so I just did a quick Internet search. Looks like she was not an Indian, or even close:
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surnames.nooner/13.1
Is this correct? Or is the rumor that she was an Indian correct? If you’re like me, you want the facts, no matter if the facts line up with my fantasy or not.
Matthew J Warren said:
PS. Pardon my spelling. : / PS. Being linked to William the Conqueror was important to Hamelin, thus the new last name. Henry II knew good and well that ALL Nephilim were (and still to this day) Fitzroy.
ray j warren said:
-Matthew, it would be interesting to see how your line has come to America, was it like Elvis Presley whose grandmother Warren dated back to Nicholas Warren of Kent? How so are you related to Hamelin Plantagenet? Many Americans are following the wrong lines in their quest for Royalty
Mrs. Polly said:
I am delighted to know that there are direct and in-direct descendents of the Plantagenet line. I often wonder how the German line arrived in the UK in 1734 or thereabouts, I have never found clear information on that. (?)
billfoley63 said:
Hi Mrs Polly. If you want to read how the German House of Hanover came to the throne I do talk about it in the current series I am doing on this blog called the Survival of Monarchies. Basically after Catholic James II was deposed and all Protestant members of the Stuart dynasty died out the House of Hanover were the closest Protestant heirs.
Robert Findley said:
Not so how about the Line of Stewart’s ( Stuart’s) from the Earl’s of Bute and other Scottish Stewart’s. The Hanoverians only came to the throne because Elizabeth Stuart was married to the Elector of Hanover and they came from the house of Este and that is the same house of Julius Ceaser.
Robert Findley ( Raebeart Fionndlagh) (gaelic) said:
Hi, Bill The Stuart dynasty is still alive through the children of Princess Diana as she was descended from Charles 2nd and she was not a commoner she was a true princess.
Sometimes it is hard to prove but I am also a descendant of the Macbeth line through his fourth son Fearchar.
Robert Findley
Salisbury said:
Indeed; the sectarian bigotry of the English ruling class would allow nothing else.
AJ said:
The descendants of Hamelin Plantagenet are not descended from English Royalty as he was an illegitimate son of Geoffrey of Anjou.
Salisbury said:
Indeed; and known as ‘bastard sons of the black devil.’ Perhaps that particular poster still is!
Georges said:
That is correct. Hamelin is the older natural brother of King Henry II, the founder of England’s Plantagenet line and the uncle of all Plantagenet Kings of England. He was the grandson of King Fulk of Jerisalem and came from a long line of the most powerful French nobility and is a blood relation of all subsequent English royals. The fact that he was a natural son of Geoffrey, Duke of Normandy and Count of Anjou was not too much of debilitating factor as you will remember that his relative Duke William who became King William I of England was also a natural son of a Duke of Normandy. His younger brother King Henry offered to support his legitimation so he could take his rightful place as the senior Prince of England but Hamelin chose to marry the de Warren heiress which placed him among of the richest nobles of Europe
rayjwarren said:
They are through his wife of the De Warrene family who are certainly of the blood royal of both England and France.
AJ said:
Exactly his wife not him.
rayjwarren said:
Well then, I take it that anyone that claims to have come from Hamlin’s line does not have the English blood Royal unless they can claim it from his wife??? How can they claim anything if Hamelin had no children to his wife and why can they not if he did? Once he had children, they can claim, what does it matter if he had no English Royal blood?
AJ said:
That is correct the English royal blood comes via his wife. He had no English blood whatsoever? I wasn’t disputing they had English royal blood just saying it is not from him.
Ron Jones said:
I am related to the Planagenet line by:
Grand (G21) Father: John de Mowbray, 3rd Baron Mowbray (00)
b. November 29, 1310; Hovington, Yorkshire, England
d. October 4, 1361; Bedford, Bedfordshire, England
buried: Bedford Greyfriars, Friars Manor, Bedfordshire, England
married: Joan of Lancaster, Baroness de Mowbray (00)
as well as:
Grand (G22) Mother: Joan de Cornwall (00)
b. circa 1286;Thunnock, Lancashire, England
d. September 25, 1342; Howard Chapel, East Winch, Norfolk, England
buried: Howard Chapel, East Winch, Norfolk, England
married: John Howard, Governor of Norwich Castle (00)
Grand (G23) Father: Richard de Cornwall, Earl of Cornwall (00)
b. circa 1252; Berkhamstead, Hertfordshire, England
d. 1280; Berwick-upon-Tweed, Nothumberland, England
buried: Hailes Abbey, Gloucestershire, England
married: Joan St. Owen (00)
Grand (G24) Father: Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl Cornwall (00)
b. January 5, 1209; Winchester Castle, Winchester, Hampshire, England
d. April 2, 1272; Berkhamsted Castle, Hertfordshire, England
buried: Hailes Abbey, Hailes, Gloucestershire, England
I have the Howard, FitzAlan, deMowbray and Cornwall families in my lineage. Does that make a Plantagenet family member? I don’t know, but it is interesting to find names like these in my lineage.
Ron
Salisbury said:
No; those are all indirect links. Thus ensuring you remain OUT of the Plantagenet, Howard, Mobray, etc families. Their system in fact has been designed created and maintained to keep the likes of you OUT.
Cheers!
“Lol” etc.
Kelly Haynes-Green said:
Interested in what you think of the new DNA evidence from Richard III? Is the current Somerset/Beaufort descendants actual descendants of the Plantegenets? It seems more likely that their was a false paternity break somewhere between John of Gaunt’s descendants.
Are there no other living descendants of one of Edward III’s other sons?
billfoley63 said:
I am still reading about this and trying to soak it all in. I will post more about this in a future blog post/ Thanks for your question!
William Kent Goble said:
My cousin, G. Marion Norwood Callam of Bushey Heath, Hertfordshire gives my genealogy as follows: John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford, Joan Beaufort and Ralph Neville, K.G., Lady Alice Neville and Henry 5th Lord FitzHugh, Elizabeth FitzHugh and Nicholas Lord Vaux, Catherine Anna Vaux and Sir George Throckmorton, Sir Robert Throckmorton and Muriel Berkeley, Chatherine Throckmorton and Henry Norwood, Elizabeth Lygon and Earl Beauchamp of Madresfield. Also: Margaret Plantagenet and Lord John Segrave, Elizabeth Segrave and John 4th Lord Mowgray, Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk and Elizabeth Fitz Alan, L.G., Isabel Mowbray and James First Baron de Berkeley, Maurice de Berkeley and Isabel Mead, Anne Berkeley and Sir William Dennis, Eleanor Dennis and William Lygon, 7th Lord Beauchamp of Madresfield, Elizabeth Lygon and William Norwood of Leckhampton. The family line moves to America into Virginia and North Carolina, etc.
Carolyn F. McNiven said:
I am descended from the Virginia (then Maryland) line of Fitzhugh — the branch that eventually moved to California.
Hildegerd Haugen said:
How come so suddenly in fashion to believe to be a Plantagenet?
Ed said:
Well done! -it’s just nubnuttery in desiring to be the ruling class whilst the real ruling class strip and break you 🙂
Hildegerd Haugen said:
I think you are right.
rayjwarren said:
The Americans are forever trying to prove they are all royal rather than show that they are greatly descended from convicts. England shipped her convicts to America from settlement onward and since that time Americans have denied it. They have had an almost 200 year start on South Africa, India and Australia in that department. Oh yes they will try to deny it but I have the shipping records of many ships that deposited their cargo on American soil. First it was America and then after Independence, it was the West Indies.
Thomas Adams said:
Well I beg your pardon, yes, there was one penal colony in America, in Savanah, Georgia. I am aware of no other. Many English aristocrats had land in Virginia and South Carolina and used indentured servants from England in addition to African slaves to work their plantations. Our family, the Colmores, William de Colmore, whose family seat was in the County of Bigorre on the north slope of the Pyrenees in what is now the Midi in France then moved to Worcestershire and Warwickshire were ministers of finance to the Plantagenets starting in 1213.
Brandy Fullerton said:
What a claim! Such a totalitarian statement requires that you have sources to share with us to back up your claim. Otherwise, we’ll go move on knowing you’re simply being rude.
Frances said:
My Great, Great, Great etc Granfather Captain John Smith of Jamestown did not bring conficts to America. There were many families on these ships where their lines are definetly royal. Captain John Smith’ family were Smyth’s in England, royal blood. Also, William Mason’s father was a Sir. These are my relatives and I can trace my ancestors to 100 ad. They include King Cnut, William theConqurer, King Henry 1, Harrington,s, Holbrooks, so many Knights I was amazed. I just found this out 2 weeks ago. I could not even make up this much royalty in my tree. Funny stuff!
rayjwarrenr said:
I really do hate to disillusion you but I will if you put your tree down here from say your Great Grandfather back to where you join the Royals, If you go back through the Conqueror I should dearly like to know who the Royals are beginning with the last.
Tulan said:
England shipped all the criminals to Australia. America had one penal colony.
Many lesser royals came to America for land and wealth because the royal titles in many families had run out (like what is happening to some of the English royal family members today), or the family lost their titles and fortunes through many different situations, and the other children who could not inherit titles, and children whose families lost everything would not have fared very well staying in Great Britain.
When they came to America they were given lands, but no titles because only the firstborn inherited all and titles. Better opportunities to stay wealthy and own land in America and many did and still are wealthy.
Many dirt poor immigrants to America became wealthy…..the only country in the world where anything was possible for anyone.
Michael Brown said:
Thomas Adams, while the only English penal colony in North America was Georgia (or possibly more specifically Savannah, Georgia), they did ship over Scottish Prisoners of War taken as POWs after a couple of battles in the 3rd English Civil War to Massachusetts around 1650. Many of them worked in the Saugus Iron Works. Some of those POWs were sent to the Caribbean or possibly elsewhere as well. I do believe that about 10,000 POWs were captured and force-marched south into (or further south in) England and held before being loaded on various ships to be sent elsewhere. Of those 10,000, no more than about 3,500 (?) survived the force-march or the imprisonment.
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
And many of us came for religious freedom, from which 80% of our lineage comes. Included are: The Fullers and Whites of the Mayflower, Stewarts in Canada from a line of Preachers and doctors sent to tend the wealthy, Mason, tobacco merchant for the King originally, Bieri’s and Hunsakers of Switzerland who were Amish, Johnsons who were sea Captains; and the list goes on and on. The majority of England’s supposedly of prurient backgrounds emigrants also included many Merchant class men who owed ridiculously high taxes and were jailed when they wouldn’t pay them (which included most of the Mayflower passengers).
Bill said:
Here’s where I get to learn about “Royalists.” Seems Cromwell was rounding up royalists and shipping them to the New World where they were put to work in mills, farms and such, Scottish folks too. Plus there was also the Argyll migration.
Somehow, my great grandfather was found in Oxford, then the failed colony of Weymouth, Massachusetts.
Being american, didn’t get the chance to understand Royalistism.
Also, President George Washington was Isabel DeWarenne’s 33 great grandson (in the 1700’s) and I’m her 2nd husband’s (Hamelin D’Anjou-DeWarenne’s) 21st great grandson. I wonder if ol’ George was paternally french or scottish.
Darrel Hockley said:
I am a Plantagenet descendant also. I am descended from Edward Howard (1628 to 1662), fifth son of Sir Francis Howard (1585 to 1651). Edward married Esther Hannah Hawkins (1640 to 1664) and started an colonial American line of the Howards. Darrel Hockley, Regina, SK, Canada Email: ddh_regina@yahoo.ca
Pingback: Henry III, King of England, Fox in the Henhouse, 52 Ancestors #49 | DNAeXplained – Genetic Genealogy
Sherry said:
I thought surely, the above statement, that there are no direct male line legitimate Plantagenets left, was an error…so I set about tracking them, From Geoffrey of Anjou on…and…the last direct legitimate male Plantangenet was, Edward, Earl of Warwick, died 1499. Incredible….below is my decendancy chart, let me know if there are errors.
DIRECT MALE LINE LEGITIMATE PLANTAGENET DESCENDANTS OF
GEOFFREY OF ANJOU
d. 1151
Henry II d. 1189
Henry, the Young King d. 1155
LINE EXTINCT
Richard I d. 1199
LINE EXTINCT
Geoffrey, Duke of Brittany, d 1186
Athur, Duke of Brittany, d. after 1189
LINE EXTINCT
John, King of England, d 1216
Henry III, d 1272
Edward I, d 1307
Edward II
Edward III d 1377
Edward, The Black Prince d. 1376
Richard II d. 1400
LINE EXTINCT
Lionel, Duke of Clarence, d 1368
LINE EXTINCT
John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, d 1399
Henry IV, d 1413
Henry V, d 1422
Henry VI, d 1471
Edward, Prince of Wales, d 1471
LINE EXTINCT
Thomas, Duke of Clarence, d
LINE EXTINCT
John, Duke of Bedford, d 1435
LINE EXTINCT
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, d
LINE EXTINCT
Edmund, Duke of York, d 142
Richard, Earl of Cambridge, d 1415
Richard, Duke of York, d 1460
Edward IV, d 1483
Edward V d. after 1483
LINE EXTINCT
Richard of Shrewsbury, d after 1883
LINE EXTINCT
Edmund, Earl or Rutland, d 1460
LINE EXTINCT
George, Duke of Clarence, d 1478
Edward, Earl of Warwick, d 1499
LINE EXTINCT
Richard III, d 1485
Edward, Prince of Wales, d 1484
LINE EXTINCT
Edward of Norwich, d 1415
LINE EXTINCT
Thomas of Woodstock, d 1397
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, d 1399
LINE EXTINCT
John of Eltham, d 1330
Thomas, Earl of Norfolk, d 1338
LINE EXTINCT
Edmund, Earl of Kent, d 1330
Edmund of Kent d 1331
John, 3rd Earl of Kent d 1352
LINE EXTINCT
Edmund Crouchback, d 1296
Thomas of Lancaster, d 1322
LINE EXTINCT
Henry, Earl of Lancaster, d 1345
Henry of Grosmont, d 1361
LINE EXTINCT
Geoffrey of Nantes, d 1158
LINE EXTINCT
William of Poitou, d 1163/64
LINE EXTINCT
Sherry said:
Sorry, this was in an outline form so it made sense..didn’t translate that way.
Katherine Harris said:
I have pretty much all of those people in my line if it’s correct.
rayjwarren said:
I think you have omitted to place a non-extinct line in your family tree. If the line is extinct, then so is your chance at royalty.
Robert Findley ( Raebeart Fionndlagh) (gaelic) said:
Hello All, Prince Arthur, the son of Geoffrey of Anjou was murdered by King John to take the throne as my history teacher taught us so his line would be the only ones to succeed to the dynasty.
Robert Findley ( Raebeart Fionndlagh) (gaelic) said:
No offence but I don’t use fowl language over the internet and I know what I am talking about as I am a historian. It is apparent that Americans think that they are God’s gift to the world. Not so go to Oxford University and learn .
Salisbury said:
Offence intended…
‘Fowl’ language… Attempt at humour? Or just grousing…
You’re a ‘historian’, yet you cite your history teacher? Mental. No historian are ye.
Me, a septic? WTF? You (attempt to) Gaelicize your name, yet advocate attendance at Oxford? Why not TCD? And which in any case the elitism which oft comes across as mildly cretinous to say the least. Sounds like someone who doesn’t know his balls from Bullae…
Bill said:
Um, not to be rude, but you forgot about Henry II’s eldest half-brother Hamelin D’Anjou-DeWarenne 1124-1202) 4th or 5th Earl of Surrey.
The 2nd husband of the former queen of Scotland (before Robert the Bruce) Isabel DeWarenne and daughter of William DeWarenne 3rd Earl of Surrey.
Whose descendants populated Poynton and Stockport, and then America.
So just because we don’t sport the name, doesn’t mean we don’t sport the paternal chromosome.
Also, Henry I (Beauclerc (Longshanks)) proclaimed Hamelin illegitimate. Henry and Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155) fought back and forth. Seems Hamelin caught the fallout, and Henry II became king to settle some of their disputes. Seems odd Geoffrey became ill and died returning from a trip.
Iceberg said:
Didn’t the direct male line of the illegitimate Hamelin de Warrene die out with John de Warenne (30 June 1286 – June 1347), 7th Earl of Surrey or Warenne, the last Warenne earl of Surrey?
Assuming no cuckoos in the nest (and there are), Hamelin has no living direct-male descendants. Millions of descendants through his daughters, but even his daughters’ sons were not direct male descendants.
“Illegitimate,” of course, basically means, “not of the blood.” Hamelin was illegitimate, as his teenage father, Geoffrey, was not married. And let’s be realistic: who knows if Geoffrey was really the father?
Katherine Harris said:
From info I have been given from my great aunt who did research on the family’s genealogy, I am a descendant of the Plantagenets. Our last name is Harris and we traced Henry the third down to one of my ancestors, Captain Thomas Harris. I was just wondering if you’ve seen the name Harris anywhere because I just want to make sure. Thanks!
Nicholas Harrison said:
I am also a direct descendant of the Plantagenet line – My 28th great grandfather was Geoffrey V ‘le bel’ Plantagenet. In my case the line traces down through Warren, then Neville, Thompson, Brown and finally Harrison. Of course the line tracks back and forth because occasionally it is traced through grandmother then grandfather, and so on.
Bill said:
I’m a paternal Warren, and I have no Neville’s for cousins (though I prolly shouldn’t).
Count Geoffrey (le Bel) D’Anjou V (1113-1155) is also my direct (father to son only) great grandfather, we should be cousins on that note.
We should have a common ancestor.
So far, King George VI is my cousin. Geoffrey is the common ancestor.
I also have another common ancestor with another guy in australia who lived 2300 years ago; 300 years before 0A.D.
Lesley Anne (Foxwell) Gatt said:
I am a descendant of the Plantagenet line on my father’s side. John Plantagenet Waite was my 13th G. Grandfather; Edward 1 was my 19th G. Grandfather; King Edward II was my 5th cousin 19x rem.; King Edward III was the father-in-law of my 17th Great Grandmother Lady Joan Holland of Kent. King Henry III was my 20th G. Grandfather. There are many other royals in my family tree.
rayjwarren said:
Shows how many busy little humpers were around the maids-in-waiting at that time, still,you might be okay if there is not an originator in the DNA tests.
Kalim S. said:
Im a Plantagenet 8x over via my maternal grandmother who’s family emigrated to New York.. the true lines like mine still exist, although now in the US, and the Royal descendants have remained quite wealthy and educated to this day as we were in the UK. We just don’t care so much about the royal side..obviously.
Raymond J Warren said:
my family Warren appear to be soaked in religion, My gg Grandfather Nathaniel Warren was the Printer for Winchester in Hampshire and his [and mine] forebears go back through Marnhull in Dorset to John Warren born 1717 in Ashburton, Devon. He was born of Vicar Christopher Warren and his wife Alice Warren who lived at Ilsington, Devon where Christopher died in 1626. Due to the very large contingent from America wishing to have Royalty in their lineage, I am unable to go back further except in the knowledge that Christopher’s father was William Warren and his father was another Christopher preceded by another William possibly from Nottingham. Can anyone assist me in knowing how far my line goes back. The names Christopher, John, William, Richard, Robert and Thomas dominate my family throughout the centuries since the Normans
Bill said:
Get you a copy of “The History and Genealogy of the Warren Family.” By Rev. Thomas Warren F.R.S.A. (pub. 1902). The Warren’s are male descendants of Rollo Duke of Normandy, and his wife Gisela a direct descendant of Charlemagne.
Plantagenets are direct male descendants of Charlemagne.
According to my paternal DNA test results the Warren line originated in the North Fertile Crescent 25,500 years ago.
If you are a B blood type, this would be more plausible as well. B blood types are 6% of the world’s population. B rH Neg are .5% of the B blood group. the B blood group also originated in the North Fertile Crescent.
Folks from Spain also have this blood group, indicating immigration from around the destruction of First Temple built by King Solomon. Sephardic, Ethiopian, and Mizrahi Jews are indicative of this migration.
My DNA test results indicate these groups of folks as my cousins. Seems Iberians are more likely to have this blood type, not the Basques.
Soaked in religion? Heh, can you find the Star of David at Conisborough Castle?
The ancient Warren motto on the COA reads “Leo de Juda es robur nostrum.” Or, “The Lion of Judah is our strength. Learn the spiritual meaning of the checkerboard. Has nothing to do with a game of royal armies.
If you are a patern Warren, you will have more Scandinavia DNA, from Rollo. But the Warren name continued through the Angevin paternal line via Hamelin. A true male Warren would be descended from one of the William DeWarenne Earls of Surrey. After them would be either Hamelin D’Anjou-DeWarenne, 5th Earl of Surrey – by right of his wife, or King Henry II.
Yes! “Bill” is my real name. No coincidence that i’m aware of…
Tracey Anne O´Brien said:
Very interesting I am B+ and have 10 enthenticits in my DNA ranging from Irish, English crossing Europe and ending in Hungary. I have traced my ancestors back 69 generations and many are Spanish royalty, The Platagenets, the Anjou dynesty of Normandy. Apparently Mathilda of Flanders who is a direct ancestor married William the Conqueror who would be an uncle. Some even became Emporers of Rome, It goes right back to The Vandals. ii is a riches to rags story as by 1795 a few actually died in the Workhouse in Suffolk. In England a lot of my family where nobles from Yorkshire such as Sir Robert Constable of Yorkshire and one was executed in the Tower for being the main leader in the Pilgramge of Grace. Looking at my family history from 1520 backwards is like reading a history book. Some where born in Castles. others died of the plague, some where murdered by their sons to take control and others such as Sir William Skipwith was a speaker in the Commons in the 1400s´I can´t beleive how many Kings, Queens, Dukes, Counts and Barons there are in the family and I am just a humble teacher living in Madrid. History is very interesting and has always been my passion since i can remember, Unfortunatly all the estates my ancestors had all over England were confiscated and many were executed due to being rebels. One was even one of the knights who witnessed the Magna Carta. Wish I had a time machine to be an observer.
Iceberg said:
Bill, you wrote, “Soaked in religion? Heh, can you find the Star of David at Conisborough Castle? The ancient Warren motto on the COA reads ‘Leo de Juda es robur nostrum.’ Or, ‘The Lion of Judah is our strength.'”
“The Lion of Judah” refers to Jesus the Christ; there would be no Stars of David.
And again, check to see if the male line of descent via Hamelin died out in 1347. I could be wrong, but the last Warrene Earl of Surrey died then, and had no legitimate sons. No legit daughters, either. His two illegitimate sons died before he did, so that was that.
Raymond J Warren said:
Sorry, John born 1617 not 1717
sonia said:
Well I m Colombian, and just last month I received the result of my mitochondrial and DNA test results, from Ftdna, my surprise is that Plantagenet and Charlemagne are in my lineage.
rayjwarren said:
Family Tree DNA will also tell you what you want to hear for a price, they have no originator for the DNA tests ie; they have not dug up Charlemagne, they have not been able to dig up Plantagenet and are assuming that the modern day Plantagenet followers are directly related without proper research. The same goes for my Warren Family, they have not taken DNA from Gundrada De Warren and so cannot be sure if my line goes back through Queen Matilda to Charlemagne and etc. Until they DNA test the bones of the ancients, nothing is sure, especially as they were all taking maids and servants to bed.
Brian Michael Mooney said:
Sonia, I was born in Colombia but adopted in 1976 and raised in the states my Maternal Haplogroup came back as J1c2. I’m actually interested in finding possible relatives.
rayjwarren said:
Ask that DNA tests be done on all ancient burials that we have the bones for, the bones of William Duke of Normandu and of Queen Matilda [his wife] and of Gundrada [her daughter] and of William De Warren are all available for testing. ASK THEM TO TEST NOW! before the test materials are no longer available.
Brandy Fullerton said:
That would be wonderful if that actually happened!
Robert Findley said:
My name is Robert Findley and I am wondering if Macbeth Macfinley had children as I think our family came him.
rayjwarren said:
If you want people to assist, send or post youy proven Gran and great grand fathers, where they were born and married and you could be taken back to where you want to be.
Robert Findley said:
I am back to 1721 Robert Finley (Findley) but I don’t know where he was born as it does not show it on ancestry websites.
rayjwarren said:
Come on man, if you are back there then you know where he lived ie; what county, there are so many different ways to unravel your problem and all you say is that you do not know where he was born? Then where were his descendants born, 1722 is a good start and remember, spellings were not always adhered to back then so like I said, there are many ways to dig them out and Ancestry is for kids because it works mostly from the 1800’s onward and works from other peoples research. What I would need is Robert’s children and where they lived and were born and where they migrated.
Robert Findley said:
Thank You, Children Robert, William Barbara, & James
I wish to thank you for all your from our Australian family
rayjwarren said:
Then maybe this;
Name Robert Finley
Spouse’s Name; Barbara Rutherford
Event Date 05 Jan 1740
Event Place St Peter,Monkwearmouth,Durham,England
Children so far, Robert, Barbara, James
If this is correct, they appear to have come from Durham and perhaps prior to that from Northumberland
Robert Findley said:
That looks positive but no parents for Robert though. it there any other info? all the best for the festive season .
rayjwarren said:
I suppose this would not be him>
Robert Finley
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:
12 June 1721
St Andrew’s, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
residence:
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
father:
David Finley
mother
rayjwarren said:
The two families I leave here are probably yours, Guilemus is William in French and Norman and I believe that your Grandfather back then was William [Guilemus] father of Robert whose father was Robert whose father was Ewans.
So from Robert married Barbara 1740, we go to William [Guilemus] then to Robarti then to Robert Fynley 1656 then to Ewans Fynley [b] c1630. The spelling has changed from an i to a y but that means nothing. To find out where Robert married Barbara came from, send for a transcript of his marriage in 1740 of his birth in 1721. I believe that he married at 19years and I have found all his children. It is likely that he lost one or two in the early stages of his marriage or was employed in a job that kept him away a bit. The Findley family go back to about 1570 in that area and I believe that they are your relatives until that time. Where they go from there in hard to judge but the names appear Norman and therefore probably date back to the aristocracy and were probably landed or Churchmen prior to 1640.I can say that William was probably the father of Robert married Barbara who named their son after Robert’s father. The use of the Norman or Latin spellings is not uncommon, especially before and after the religious upheavals of the 1640’s.
Bianca said:
I am also related to the Plantagenets! This is a great article
Ed said:
You cretin. As I made clear earlier… so is almost everyone.
Brandy Fullerton said:
thumbs down. You’re mean.
chris rashleigh said:
Apparently i am a descendant as my surname is rashleigh
Salisbury said:
Apparently that makes little or no sense.
7Isles said:
Interesting material. So much combinations already known and yet more to discover. Will we ever know them all?
Wimberly said:
I am descended from Thomas, Duke of Gloucester, Edward III’s youngest son. The line traces through the Bourchier, Whitaker, and Perry lines.
Brandy Fullerton said:
I’m a DD of Edward III through his son Lionel of Antwerp. Hello, cousin! 🙂
Taylor said:
I am a historianut aficionado. Discovered this intriguing tidbit. The reason that Richard III’s DNA didn’t match known male descendants of Edward III’ DNA might be because he may not have been a male descendant of Edward III. His grandfather, Richard, Earl of Cambridge, could be the illegitimate product of an affair between Isabella and Holland, Duke of Exeter.
Earl of Cambridge was cut completely from his father’s will, oddly, and his mother did not name him as her heir either. And Earl of Cambridge’s son, Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York, did NOT claim royal blood through his father, but through his mother, Anne Mortimer, descended from Lionel, Duke of Clarence, through his daughter Philippa. If this were true, then both Edward IV and Richard III would only match the matrilineal DNA of Cecily Neville, which would match Anne, Duchess of Exeter also, and any other direct female descendants of Katherine Swynford.
It seems that, were he a legitimate male descendant of Edmond, Duke of York, he would have claimed that also. Particularly since Richard II had named Edmond as his heir to the throne.
Richard III was still a descendant of Edward III, through both his mother (John of Gaunt- Joan Beaufort – Cecilly Neville), and his father, so would have had a legitimate claim to the throne, nonetheless.
Just thought I would share this. It would make the results of the DNA tests make sense, if the Somerset lineage is true.
Wish someone would grab a lock of hair from all of the royal family and test. What would that reveal? Perhaps that neither QV or PA were royal descendants?
Brandy Fullerton said:
Very interesting!
Tomas catts said:
So many people sadly take their genealogical histories from online sources that actually are nothing more than someone else’s wishful thinking or shoddy research. I have been doing genealogy research for over 20 years and more than once have come upon online records that with a few hours of my own research have found to have no basis in fact. People see on a site where so and so is their ancestor and just accept it without doing any further digging and the continue to perpetuate the wrong info. I learned this early on the hard way after coming upon someone’s website while researching a grit grandfather. I had been unable to find out who his parents were and this person had the answer (or so I thought). Well a few years later I found this wasn’t the case at all when new records appeared on line. When I let this person know the truth their reply was “oh well I didn’t know where else to put him”. And to make matters worse they have never corrected their website, even though I sent them marriage and birth records. So you really do need to be careful of what genealogy records you take from people online.
Brandy Fullerton said:
I agree. We must be very careful and do the loooong and painstaking research. That being said, even if we have perfect records there is still the issue of illegitimacy and adoptions. I’ve been working on my family tree for three solid years. I’ve spent no less than several hours almost every single day. It’s a very big job if one wants an accurate ancestral tree.
Kim said:
Yes. They get angry if you point out the error and have the research and records of a professional genealogist to back it up. They refuse to correct the misinformation.
janeene r. browne blank said:
hello, i am a desendent, as our my 3 sons, through lucy neville and anthony browne. but we prefer to not stress it. also through the beauchamps. i am able to make a strong case for this by following the incidence of what appears to be a hereditary bi-polar link, the 2 ms, melancholia and mania.
janeene r. browne blank said:
myself and my three sons are decendents, plantagenets, through lucy neville, second wife of anthony browne. i can follow the line in a hereditary incidence of the 2 ms, mania and melancholia, or as we know it bi-polar disorder, which i believe comes from the viking, norwegian genetics.
Doug N Janeene Blank said:
myself and my three sons are of plantagenet decent through lucy neville second wife of anthony browne. i have been able to follow through family genetics,or what appears to be the 2 ms, melencholia and mania. we know this as bi-polar, probably through viking, norwegian genetics
Iceberg said:
Janeene, I’m curious as to why you think the bipolar disorder in your family is a sign that you are descended from Lucy Neville & Anthony Browne. Also, why do you believe your bipolar disorder came from a Viking?
After a thousand years (since the Vikings), any such traits would have pretty much been erased by all the people in your direct line of descent. Home environment is also important in the presentation of bipolar disorder. Assuming a person has the genetic marker(s) that can result in bipolar disorder, the home life is an important factor in triggering it. After 500 years (Neville and Browne), the patterns of behavior in the home that trigger bipolar disorder would have vanished.
Have you found documentation (church records, usually) that link you to Neville and Browne? You might find hints or possibilities online, via genealogy sites, but we mustn’t take what we find on such sites as factual, only as possibilities. We need to get the documentation, or assume someone online was making things up. This happens a lot.
Rest assured that, no matter where your roots began, you, your sons, and your sons’ father(s) are all descended from royalty (and by “royalty,” I mean direct, immediate family of a king or queen, or the equivalent, such as tsar or emperor). Pretty much everyone on earth today is descended from one or more royal families.
The real fun begins when we track our commoner ancestors, and find out how they lived.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I totally agree with what you have said. If you are of European descent then it is highly possible that you have royal ancestors but the only proof would be through matching your genetic haplogroup with lets say Richard III. My ancestors start getting noble from the 1500s and earlier and then by the late 18th century a few end up in the workhouse, some are arigultural labourers, blacksmiths – basically the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker to name but a few , The only bona fide connection I can make is through the connection to the Constable family of Yorkshire as a document(a book) clearly states that my direct ancestor taught his cousin at Gonville and Ciaus ( Robert Constable) and as his mother was apparently Alice Constabl it kind of tallys in. I also have a breakdown of regional areas around Britain where my anscestors lived and it coincides 100% with my family tree I also have Scandinavian, Baltic Slavic, Caucasus Sciillian and Tuscany ethenticities so am a bit of a mixed bag. . As for the so called bi polar trait my son could be considered mentally unstable but that could just be a coincidence. . My blood group is B+ (don´t know what the royals were) As I said before I prefer to remain suspicious about the whole thing but will keep on investigating and have my DNA tested again to find out my haplogroup which could put some light on the matter..I don´t think anyone should go around saying that they are a direct descendant of the Platagenents or Tudors unless they can back it up with genetic evidence,
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Forgot to mention that I also have living distant cousins who share my DNA and their surnames are Beaufort, Bohun,DÁrcy etc which I have also discoverd in my family tree from hundreds of years ago. Could be just coincidence, As well as trying to get documented evidence such as births, deaths and marriages, there are also wills, names mentioned in books, list of clergy throughout the ages, cenus(but only goes back to the mid 1840s so not really much help for ancestors from earlier centuries) Its always better to back up evidence you have on sites such as My Heritage or others with national archives of the region just to get a second opinion or backup, I know that the European royalty are all kind of related and I also have DNA matches from people in Holland Belgium , spain plus other countries including the Cheque Republic and Kiev which does coincide with people in my family tree as these countries all married into the various royal families around Europe. Could all be one big coincidence but as I love history I will keep on investigating.
James k said:
I am also a desendant of the plantagenet bloodline.
Celicia said:
Edward the III was my 18th great grandfather from Thomas his youngest son, through the Bourchier/Bryan lines. My paternal great grandmother was descended from this line. In addition, my 12th great grandfather was Sir Francis Bryan, of Henry VIII’s court.
Robert Findley said:
Who is the heirs of Macbeth Macfinley King of Scots?
Iceberg said:
Robert Findley, did MacBeth have any children? He had none with his wife, Gruoch. As to his heirs, initially his stepson, but that man was killed not long after MacBeth was killed. So who was MacBeth’s heir? No one.
Remember that when surnames became a must for commoners (due to taxes), many took the names of their fathers (patronymic surnames). So a fellow named Richard might take his father John’s name as his surname, and become Richard John’s son, written as Richard Johnson. As there were many Johns throughout Europe, there are many unrelated Johnsons, Janssons (Scandinavian), MacEòin (Gaelic), etc. Findley appears to be a patronymic, meaning many unrelated men took the names of their fathers, and became MacFinley (in the Gaelic form).
To find out if you are a blood relation to MacBeth, you might have to go back to his father, and see if his father had other children, then trace their lineage. But good luck with that; from what I’ve found, no one is too sure.
Find out what your grandfather, your great-grandfather, and your great-great-grandfather did for a living. Put yourself in their shoes: how did they survive? How many children did they have? Who did they marry? What were their wives like? They were great men; they survived hard times without the help of an army or their father’s money.
Try shutting off your lights and everything else electrical for a couple of hours one night, and then make your way around with a candle. Keep in mind that your candle is of superior quality to anything your great-great-grandfather had, and cheaper. You likely have street lights casting some light into your home, but without electricity, you’ll still find yourself in a much different world. Just be careful not to burn the place down! I tried this not long ago, and realized I normally walk around in my home without thinking much about where I put my feet. With a lighted candle in my hand, I had to watch every step. When I put the candle down, I had to think about where I placed it. And reading by candlelight without burning your hair off is challenging. As for not using my toilet or kitchen tap for water, forget it! Candlelight was where I drew the line.
We are rich compared to medieval kings, and living like fairies, compared to our real heroes: our great-great-grandparents.
L Peers said:
I am a direct descendant of Henry II The Plantagenet .It is from William Longspree the 1st Earl of Salisbury who was the son of King Henry II from his mistress Ida de Tosny. But I only just found this out recently. Unfortunately I was reared working class, wish I had his education and up bringing that mu ancestors had!
I am the 27th bastard grandchild of Henry II
paul mulholland said:
I was told quite a few years ago that i carried a plantagenet name MULHOLLAND, whether this true or not i dont know. Very interested.
Mark said:
For those of you thinking you are direct descendents of Hamelin Plantagenet (de Warenne) The LAST earl de warenne was John the 8th Earl (1286-1347) I suppose you could be related by marriage via various children of the other Earls de Warenne before and since Hamelin – however John the 8th Earl is the last TRUE Earl of the line.. Edward the 1st married John to his Granddaughter Joan de Bar. The marriage was not a happy one and was childless. Both parties asked for a divorce in 1314 but that was refused by the Church. They then lived apart with John living with his mistress Maud de Nerford, with whom he had two children. Unfortunately, Maud de Nerford and both their sons died before John, so upon John’s death in 1347 the Warenne line PROPER came to an end. His estates etc reverting to the Crown. If at the time there were ANY true descendants I would imagine they would have laid clain to the title, wealth and vast estates – this did not happen. So, unless you want to maintain a spurious link to Hamelin and the de Warennes via links betrween offshoot lines of children etc, you are NOT a descendant proper of the De Warennes. Sorry.
Robert Findley said:
According to my American cousins our family came from the youngest son of Macbeth Macfinley King of scots rightful heir to the Scottish throne as Malcolm the 3rd was an illegitimate son of Duncan and a milk maid.
rayjwarren said:
I think that you had better go back to your clip board, your research is pretty bad. Mayhaps you have something you do not like about the De Warren family, well to each his own. and to Robert, never trust an American researcher, they will have you dating back to as son of Adam in an instant.
Robert Findley said:
Yes thanks Ray I have checked some of them and have a little sceptical problems with the americans but the celtic church were very good in tracing and writing down everything .
Robert
Brandy Fullerton said:
Robert Finley, I am an American. I do my diligent research. I don’t know why you made such a rude claim. Saying what you said is quite prejudiced. We’re all individuals. Some of us actually want to know who our ancestors truly are and we put in the long hours and years of research. I’m very disappointed in you for saying something so rude. 😦
rayjwarren said:
My friend, go take a look at the IGI, the American input has almost completely stuffed up many family lines because they have made it unreadable. Not just on or even a few families have made that mess, thousands made it in the hope that they would be related to royal bloodlines. I trust that you have not been researching for long so by and by, you will come to change your stance on this.
Robert Findley said:
Hello Ray, Thanks for your asssitance. I have a letter from my distant cousins dated 1975 sent to my cousin here in australia that gave me an insight of the different spelling of our name from the gaelic to english. Hope it is right. It came from a Senator John Findley from Illinois.
Robert
Brandy Fullerton said:
Ray, I’ve been researching for years. I’ve come across many errors. I was responsible and shared my fact based, record proven data with those that spread the errors. As you can imagine no one responded to me to thank me or even tell me to bugger off. Many of us have the motive that we actually want to know the truth of who our ancestors are. For me it’s because I was adopted and also because I find it sad that most people don’t pass down ancestral information to their children here in the USA. I think it’s very important for each generation to tell their children about their ancestral heritage. I didn’t nor did anyone I know start researching their family trees because of a motive to have royal bloodlines. Wanting something like that doesn’t make it true. My key word here is *researching*. Also, “Americans” aren’t the only ones guilty of wanting to be from royalty. That claim can apply to anyone regardless of their nationality. Moreover, there are some people who spread errors simply out of laziness and they have no motive of wanting to be from royalty. It takes true dedication and countless hours of research to create an accurate family tree.
Robert Findley said:
Very Brandy, I double check everything and if I find errors I delete them immediately I have researching for 40 years.
Robert
Brandy Fullerton said:
I should add that the *NUMBER ONE* issue that I have come across with Americans (and it’s number one by a very wide margin) is them wanting to have Native American ancestry. THIS has been the biggest pain in my arse. I’ve not come across any kind of royalty desire whatsoever that compares with that of wanting to have Native American ancestry.
StephStiefel said:
I’m not sure I understand the American-bashing. As an American with a diverse heritage – German, Swedish, English, and Irish – I am interested learning who and what my ancestors were. I’m not concerned with possible royal origins; I want to learn about my ancestry. Whether I’m descended from butcher or cobbler or king makes no difference to me. I’m fascinated with history and want to know more about my personal history. In pursuit of this information of I have invested countless hours of research. I am not so star struck by royalty that I would believe scant unsupported evidence just for the fun of having bragging rights.
rayjwarren said:
Mark, the information you have placed above is incorrect in regard to the bloodlines of the last Earl de Warrene. He had several children out of wedlock but what the hell does that matter, the bloodlines are what count and without DNA, you are nothing. The Earl had several children and the lands and etc were given back for distribution among his children. Please research using Britannica if you must use an Encyclopedia as Wiki is a bunch of tarnished rubbish.
Mark said:
Actually Ray if my research is incorrect then so is all the research done by English Heritage since they have been responsible for one of the De Warenne estates, and especially after a £1.1 million investment into one of DeWarrens castles at Conisbrough in South Yorkshire. So, I hope you will forgive me for taking research by the National custodians of our countries Heritage as more correct than anything you can come up with as you are, by comparison, an amateur researcher.
Also, I am afraid you are incorrect in saying that the De Warenne lands were given back for distribution among De Warennes children. Far from it. Edward III gave the Yorkshire estates to his fourth son Edmund of Langley (1341-1402) the only link to John De Warenne was the fact that John had been Endmund of Langley’s Godfather. As I said, John De Warenne outlived all his children and the line ended. That would be why the King gives one of his own children the De Warennes lands. As I said, if there were any true family descendants at the time it would be them that certainly would have laid claim to everything and nothing would then have had to be returned to the Crown.
Edmund and his descendants of the House of York retained the lands until they became abandoned sometime shortly after 1482-3 when the last repairs to the Castle took place. In 1559 Elizabeth I granted Conisbrough Castle and the manor of Conisbrough to her cousin Henery Carey Lord Hudson. In 1737 the same lands and manor were sold to Thomas Osborne 4th Duke of Leeds and by inheritance then to Sackville Lane-Fox and by further inheritance then to the 5th Earl of Yarborough. In 1946 the Castle at Conisbrough cas sold to Conisbrough Urban District Council for £25.00 Then to the Ministry of Works in 1950 and to English Heritage in 1984.
Not a true De Warenne descendant in sight.
As for your assumption that I used Wiki for any research – seriously? I certainly would not use Wiki as a source of legitimate research as it is often updated by people such as yourself who ‘think’ they are correct, despite being totally wrong. NONE of my research comes from any such encyclopedia, including Britannica for that matter. Far from it. However, seeing as you seem to doubt the authenticity of the sources I refer to perhaps you would like further reading yourself…
GT Clark ‘Conisbrough Castle’ Yorkshire Archaeological Journal Part 1 (1883)
CT Clay The Honour of Warenne. Yorkshire Archaeological Society Record Extra series Vol 3
R Fairbank ‘John, last Earl of Warenne and Surrey’ Yorkshire Archeological Journal 19 (1906-7)
D Hey Medieval South Yorkshire (Ashbourne 2003)
J Hunter South Yorks The History and Topography of the Deanery of Doncaster in the Diocese and county of York Vol 1 (1828)
JS Johnson Excavations at Conisbrough Castle 1973-1977 Yorkshire Archeological Journal (1980)
J Mesqui Chateaux et encientes de la France medievale 2 Vols (Paris 1991-3)
There are many more sources I could list here but I would not want to bore people reading what is a simple reply to someone who has the audacity to tell me, and the several hundred people researching the above listed sources, and many other preffessionals, that we are all wrong and rayjwarren is correct.
Have a nice day.
ark, wgat a smartie pants we are. listen mate, get your lower class arguement correct. my statement was pertaing to the children of the 7th earl said:
Wow
Iceberg said:
Ray, bloodlines are not “what count”; inheritance is what counts. In any line of descent, there will be “oopsies!” who are passed off as legitimate heirs. The current Queen Elizabeth has a most interesting line of direct descent: an apparently purposeful bastard child. Good times!
As for the last Warrene Earl of Surrey, he died in 1347. His sons died before he did. He may have written a will, but when the recipients are dead, to whom do the assets revert? In Warrene’s case, to the Crown.
As for the surname de Warrene, it means, “from Varrenne”; as a geographical name, many unrelated people would have taken “from Varrenne” as their surname. To complicate matters, the surname Warren could have come from somewhere besides Normandy, even outside what is now France or the British Isles. People from other countries who moved to England would often anglicize their surnames, so anything sounding similar to Warren would have been spelled the way the locals spelled it. And, of course, there were slaves (from everywhere, owned by whomever; slavery in the US was minor, compare to slavery throughout the world). Slaves would often take the surnames of their masters. Free servants and estate workers would do the same. And in Scotland, many families would pledge allegiance to a clan, and then take the clan name as their own surname, though they had no blood ties to the clan. (If, for example, your surname is Fraser/Frazier, there’s a better chance you are not related to Simon “the fox” Fraser, 11th Lord Lovat, than that you are.)
Perhaps the greatest give away that someone is a direct heir-to-heir descendant of royalty (or simply of a noble family) is that they do not talk about it. When you are invited to their “summer homes,” which are far larger than most people’s only homes, you’ll find the hallways hung with oil paintings of their ancestors, and maybe there will be a suit of armor displayed somewhere, though nowhere too flashy. If someone asks about the suit of armor, the true man or woman of royal or noble descent will not brag about the ancestor who wore it; they will shrug off the remark and reply something like, “Oh, that. Yes, well,” then give a little laugh, then change the subject. You see, it’s vulgar to brag about one’s ancestors, when one’s ancestors have been clearly documented, painted, and written about for centuries.
If you have a notable blacksmith in the family, see what you can find on him. Any notable commoner would have excelled at something, generally done so on their own. That is the ancestor to learn about, to imagine knowing, to put yourself in the shoes of such a one. Imagine a longbow man, whose name cropped up in the annals of time. He must have been great. If one pops up in history, trace his family; if far enough back in the mists of time, you’re probably related to him.
ark, wgat a smartie pants we are. listen mate, get your lower class arguement correct. my statement was pertaing to the children of the 7th earl said:
John had six illegitimate sons that I’ve been able to find. Here’s a list of them.
Ravlyn
John’s most obscure son and only mentioned, that I’ve found, in a petition presented to parliament in 1334 by one Ralph le Botiller. This petition calls him Ravlyn fitz al Counte de Garrein, “Ravlyn, son of the earl of Warenne,” and records le Botiller’s complaint that John had sent Ravlyn and some members of his household to attack two of his (le Botiller’s) manors in Cheshire and steal or destroy his possessions. Ravlyn is not mentioned either in his father’s will of June 1347 or in a letter John sent to Edward III in April 1346 naming his other two secular sons, perhaps because he was dead by then. [6]
John and Thomas
By 1316, John de Warenne had two sons by Maud Nerford, and in August that year persuaded Edward II to accept them as his heirs: he surrendered his lands to Edward and received them back “with remainder to John de Warenna son of Matilda de Neirford and the heirs male of his body, and failing such issue to Thomas de Warenna, son of the said Matilda…” [7] John evidently was the elder of the two and presumably named after their father; Thomas may have been named after Thomas Nerford, one of Maud’s brothers.
Confusingly, there are a few references at the beginning of the 1300s to John and William, sons of John, earl of Warenne, both of whom had been, according to letters of the pope, ordained priest while still under age. [8] As our Earl John was only born in 1286, these two must have been the illegitimate sons of his grandfather John de Warenne (1231-1304), the previous earl of Surrey and Warenne, and thus John’s uncles. His sons John and Thomas had both joined the order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem by November 1345, and their mother Maud Nerford was dead by then. [9] Neither of them appeared in their father’s will.
Edward
Almost certainly another son of Maud Nerford, as he owned lands in Norfolk which had previously belonged to her. John called him “Edward de Warenne, my son” – plain ‘Edward’, not ‘Sir Edward’ – in his 1347 will, and left him twenty pounds. Edward was also mentioned in a letter John wrote to Edward III in April 1346, saying that his sons Edward and William were ready to serve the king abroad. [10] He was presumably born after August 1316 as he was not mentioned in John’s land settlements at that time, and before his father “ousted” Maud Nerford from his heart and company in or shortly before 1320. He may have been named in honour of Edward II, or possibly after his father’s first cousin Edward Balliol, son of John Balliol, king of Scotland (himself probably named after Edward I). He is named as “Edward de Warenn, knight” in an entry on the Close Roll of 23 February 1349. [11]
Edward de Warenne married Cecily, daughter of Nicholas de Eton, and founded the Warren family of Poynton, Cheshire. His eldest son, named John after his father, was born in 1343 or 1344; he had other sons named Edward and William. Edward de Warenne had died by 1369, and his son John died in 1392. See this thread for more information.
Sir William and Prior William
John de Warenne had two sons called William, one a prior and the other a knight, by an unknown mother or mothers. William was the name of John’s father, Sir William de Warenne, son of the earl of Surrey who died in 1304 and killed in a jousting tournament in 1286 when John was a baby, so it’s not at all surprising that John would use the name for his sons. One of them, probably the knight, had been born by 24 August 1310, when John (then aged twenty-four) granted “his son William de Warenna and the heirs of his body” the manor of Beeston in Norfolk. Although John gave the manor of Beeston to Earl Thomas of Lancaster in 1318, Sir William de Warenne was holding it in January 1333. [12] It is strange, therefore, that William was not mentioned in John’s land settlements of 1316, when John named his sons John and Thomas as his heirs. Perhaps this means that William was not Maud Nerford’s son and she persuaded Earl John to make her own sons his heirs? Or perhaps John had envisaged a career in the Church for William, then changed his mind? I can only speculate. On the other hand, Sir William witnessed a grant of land from his father to his (Earl John’s) lardener Henry de Kelsterne in January 1332 with Thomas Nerford, Maud Nerford’s brother – which may imply a relationship between William and Nerford, or may only mean that John de Warenne held onto his connections to the Nerfords even after his relationship with Maud ended. [13]
John’s other son William was prior of Horton in Kent and of Castle Acre in Norfolk, and was named in numerous papal letters, warrants, writs etc as the illegitimate son of John de Warenne. I don’t know the identity of his mother, but according to a declaration of 1338 that he was a true-born Englishman and not a foreigner, he was born at his father’s Yorkshire castle of Conisbrough. [14] In his will, John left “Master [daunz] William de Warenne, my son, a Bible which I had made in French.” In October 1348 and again in February 1351, Edward III appointed several sergeants-at-arms to arrest William and a fellow monk of Castle Acre on the grounds that they “have spurned the habit of their order and are vagabonds in England in secular habit” who were “to be chastised according to the rule of their order.” William was, according to a papal letter, still alive in early 1364. [15]
John’s son William the knight seems to have been a great favourite of his father, judging by the number of things John bequeathed to “Sir William de Warenne, my son” in his will, which included 100 marks (sixty-six pounds), a silver-gilt helmet and coronet and all his armour for jousting. John also left a gold brooch to William’s wife, and although his will didn’t give her name, it appears in a papal grant of April 1344: Margaret. [16] Sir William was one of the three leaders of a company of archers and men-at-arms raised by his father in November 1339, and accompanied his (half-?) brother Edward de Warenne on campaign abroad in April 1346. [17] Like his (half-?) brothers Edward and William the prior, he was openly and frequently acknowledged as the earl of Surrey’s illegitimate offspring and sometimes witnessed John’s charters as “the grantor’s son,” and also received grants of his own from John on occasion. In June 1364, Edward III granted him an annuity of forty marks “for long service,” and William was still active in November 1368, when he and other men were accused of hunting without permission in the lands of Hugh Hastings in Yorkshire. [18]
Sources
ray j warren said:
So there!!!
Salisbury said:
Ark: it is a shame that you do not have the same level of concern for your spelling as you do for social class.
Normally I wouldn’t comment on something as trivial as spelling- but when you insult people with cretinous remarks, all bets, as they say, are most definitely OFF.
ray j warren said:
yes, people who live in glass houses. my errors are because i am going blind what is your excuse?
Mark Tart said:
Who the fuck are you
ray j warren said:
I am apparently someone with better control of myself and the English language. Like I said, My reference was to your statement that the 7th Earl De Warren had many more than two children and those children had many more children. So in fact, the line died out of genuine heirs but not those who would carry the name forward. Your references to my knowledge and abilities do not challenge me in any way for in what I have argued, I am correct.
Grayson said:
You blind motherfucker 🙂
rayjwarrenr said:
No, you are incorrect, my mother died when I was too young to accomplish such a feat but, I have had relations with many other mothers and so if any of you have doubts in your parentage [which most illegitimate children do] please attach a photograph to your next post.
You Have A Cretinous Gene said:
AND IT’S IN YOUR BRAIN
Paula Otiker Ferrell said:
King Richard III York / Plantagenet 1411 to 1460 is my 16th GGF so the Plantagenet line has not died out. . I’m from Indiana
AJ said:
That would be Richard III’a father the duke of York.
Philip Gibbs said:
Interesting. For male Plantagenet descendants, what about all the descendants of Richard “King of Germany” and “Duke of Cornwall.” I think thousands of Americans and probably English with the last name Cornwall are descended from him. And not only was he legitimate, but genetically speaking he was all Plantagenet Y chromosome. I assume there are countless others as those kings spread their seed far and wide; although they certainly killed each other off with efficiency during the Wars of the Roses. I still think “lesser” branches from earlier days quietly multiplied under different names – Cornwall & Beaufort (not so quiet), for example.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Dear Cousin Philip,
I hope you will respond; I do not wish to hear from the trolls. As you may remember, I descend from Lady Joan of Snowden and Wales, the daughter of King John of England. As you also may remember, the Pope at that time declared Lady Joan to be not a bastard. I was reading an article on the Guardian entitled ” Questions raised over the Queen’s ancestry after DNA tests on Richard III’s cousins” dated Tuesday, December 2. 2014. I do hope to hear from you, Philip. I would like to hear your thoughts.
Charles Edward Miller
It's Miller Time said:
Sez you, milady.
Ellejay said:
Do you mean, Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall & King of the Romans b. 1209, d. 1272, the brother of Henry III and son of King John “Lackland” Plantagenet? I’ve gone down his male lines and I think I found some direct male lines that may keep going up through 1900s that I can find records for (I think most recent one I found was for a Henry Hamilton Cornwall, who died in 1951). For other titled Cornwall branches, I was also able to get down to a Francis Cornwall 16th Baron Burford, b. 1685. Although I haven’t yet found anybody confirmed living, part of this could be due to privacy concerns and I just can’t find the records. And there’s also a female Matilda Cornwall daughter of Richard Cornwall, 5th Baron Burford, who married a John Walcott and interestingly there’s somebody on an FTDNA G Y-DNA project who has matching P287 haplogroup with surname ‘Walcott,’ from Pennsylvania, and whose family I was able to trace back their Walcott male line directly to the same John Walcott who married Matilda de Cornwall (whose father was a direct male Plantagenet descended from Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans). And although the female Matilda Cornwall in the mix would obviously not mean anything for how Walcotts ended up with the same male Y-DNA as Richard III, it does tend to show there may have been some intermixing with the Walcott & Cornwall families, and perhaps not totally random. Or perhaps the Walcotts are possibly part of a female surname being taken due to there being a bastard Plantagenet line like the Lumelys and the Fitzroys….who knows…
Thomas Scriven said:
Great post, i did know most of it apart from the second illegitimate line which makes it really interesting to me to know there are still direct descendants of Margret Beaufort (one of my favourites) out there.
Charles Edward Miller said:
I am a descendant of Lady Joan Fitzhenry Plantagenet, Lady of Snowden and Princess of Wales through the House of Gwynnedd . She was the bastard daughter of King John of England whom he made legitimate.
Like, wow. Just wow. said:
So are ten million people. Whoopie.
Charles Edward Miller said:
I realize it is nothing unique. Just the same, it is still my family and perhaps yours. Do you have to be negative about what people say? Also, artist Ralph Wolfe Cowan is my third cousin. If you know anything about art, perhaps you know about him. Like, wow!!! You sound like a teenager from the 1980’s.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Henry Tudor still had troops coming from Wales. Wales still conquered England. Remember Bosworth Field in England had Welsh Troops.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Do not be rude, Like Wow!!
hoodedman1 said:
Tudor didn’t have all that many Welsh troops. Indeed in the following years some Welsh refused to pay his extortionate taxes! The majority of his army were French mercenaries, the rabble let out of French jails for that purpose. He had a small group of Swiss pikemen and a moderate but not huge contingent of disaffected Yorkists. If Stanley hadn’t have turned his coat…probably no chance.
Charles Edward Miller said:
You are correct.
CEM's two-bob artists said:
Well, quite.
Charles Edward Miller said:
I do not quite understand the phrase used. I suppose it is meant as a bit of humor. Have a good New Year.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Also, you should not waste time answering since I will not be returning to this site.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Also, this shows not a bit of humor and your lack of intelligence.
CEM and the war against intelligence said:
And crap artists. You wil.
You know you will.
You Arthurian descendant you.
Charles Edward Miller said:
I would like to know something if you don’t mind. What do you mean by Arthurian descendant you? Are you referring to the House of Gwyneed? I am a descendant of the family of Morris Wynne of Gwydyr. His third wife was Catherine Tudor of Beraine, great-granddaughter of Henry Tudor, King of England and Earl of Richmond. As for the picture of Ralph Wolfe Cowan, RW is the only artist in the picture. The other gentleman is his business manager and nothing more. find your conversation amusing. Are you a teenager or a middle-aged gentleman? You must hate my Welshness. Or, it could be you are someone that wants to have some strange find. I believe that my wife, Mrs. Miller, would find you and your statement about crapping artists a bit demented. I do not do such things. You are thinking about it; therefore, you must be doing it.
Charles Edward Miller said:
My Kingdom for a horse. Sound familiar. That was at Bosworth Field when Henry VII killed that insane Richard III. That was the day Wales conquered England and hade poetic justice on Edward I. Wales was part of the Kingdom of England!
Henry VII never visited Wales :) said:
You’re cracked.
Nay I AM CATWEAZLE
Charles Edward Miller said:
I have a round table in my Dining Room. Should I start having meetings there?
Charles Edward Miller with a mouthful said:
@Charles Edward Miller, why do you SUCK SUCH A QUANTITY OF WAD
Charles Edward Miller said:
You must be afraid to continue the debate. Perhaps you have the same dementia that Richard III had.
CEM: Williams-Wynne Did you know that Oliver Cromwell was related to the native princes of Wales and the Williams-Wynns? He sometimes signed his name Oliver Cromwell aka Williams. Sir William Williams was my ancestral uncle.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your doubtness
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your dumbness
Charles Edward Miller said:
No, CEM is highly intelligent; you have lack of knowledge.
The English Fucked The Welsh Everytime Now It's C.E.M.'s Turn. said:
True dat 🙂
Charles Edward Miller said:
If you were truly a scholar, you would not use the “F” word. It shows your lack of education. Also, I am not related to him as far as I know, but Prime Minister Lloyd George of Great Britain was Welsh. He governed all the British including the English. Gladstone also lived in Wales. My ancestor, Sir William Williams Wynne was Speaker of the English House of Commons under James II. He was uncle to my ancestral great-grandfather George Wynn(e) or (s). You do lack a knowledge of history, your dumbness. What are you interested on royalty. I have been correct in my family; therefore, tell me about yours, your dumbness. TA, TA
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your dumbness, are you the Duke of Earl? Gene Chandler used to sing that song. Also, remember, if it were not for America, Great Britain would be part of the German Empire. One more thing. Hitler like the Duke of Windsor. Perhaps Mrs. Simpson and the Duke would have been returned to the British throne. Ta Ta, Your dumbness
Charles Edward Miller said:
Perhaps you are like King George III of Great Britain. Poor fellow.
Char Ed Mill Continues Operation Wad Suck to Completion said:
DUKE DUKE DUKE OF EARL EARL EARL DUKE OF EARL EARL EARL
Charles Edward Miller said:
I see that his doubtness has not returned. Perhaps it is for the best. I do not understand why he hated my side of the Plantagenets.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Did you know that George Washington was also a Plantagenet? There are many us in Tidewater, Virginia and North Carolina!
Philip Gibbs said:
Yes there are millions of us, everywhere; a fact that may explain why these other trolls have been mocking you, cousin. It is fascinating; but not at all unique.
Charles Edward Miller said:
I understand. Perhaps we should keep in contact every now and then. God bless.
You're Late To The Fucking Party Pal said:
As I said above eighteen mpnths ago- whilst Child Edward Miller was still banging fucking cheerleaders- ‘It has been calculated that there are approximately 100 million descendants of Edward III alive today. Indeed, the likelihood of NOT being descended from him is 1.4×10[ttpo]-26.’
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your Royal Shit Face,
You are a queer!
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your Noble Shit face,
Do you have a hump on your back? If you could, you murder your close relations. It is interesting. I can smell your shit face in North America. I have heard that you English do not take a bath very often. I image you smell like a goat. I was a bank executive. What are you? A pig farmer!
Charles Edward Miller said:
Pig Farmer. I know you stink. You are certainly no C.S. Lewis. Do you beg for money on the street corners of London? I bet you do!
Charles Edward Miller said:
Geek. I you do not like history, say off this blog.
Charles Edward Miller said:
It is not a party pal; it is the study of one’s history. If you cannot be proud of your past, what is the use of living.
Fucking Yanks Aint Got No History said:
Which explains it 🙂
Fuck Baptist Bastards said:
🙂
Charles Edward Miller said:
May God have mercy on You!
Fuck Your God And His Peado Followers said:
Well, quite 🙂
Edward Miller said:
May Jesus have mercy on you. You are not hurting when you say these things against our Lord; on the contrary, you are only destroying you own future, Matthew 10:28.
BURN THE CHURCHES said:
TOWARDS THE COMMUNIST INTERNATIONAL
Charles Edward Miller said:
Your vocabulary is extremely limited. Your spirit will one day know. I pity you.
Edward Miller said:
American history is a part of England’s history and culture. You need to read more. Why did Winston Churchill need Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s help in WWII? Why are we a Super-Power and Britain is not? 1776 to 1781 and 1812, I believe Britain lost those wars. No history, do not make me laugh!
AJ said:
Because you made us give back all our dependcies.
Edward Miller said:
Communism is dead and for the spiritually dead. God help you.
GOD HELP YOU said:
BECAUSE NO OTHER FUCKER WILL
Edward Miller said:
Is it possible for a non-troll to clean the language up that these trolls have entered?
Miller crusher said:
Is it possible for you not to be a complete tool?
Paul Earl Smith said:
Yes! Its possible Cousin…
I would add the English Civil War of 1640’s followed by Charles I head rolling down the steps of White Hall (Jan 30 1649) and the revenge of Charles II as the start of American History.
I am also descended from Edward III, Edward the Black Prince, an illegitimate half brother of Richard II, but not Sir Roger Clarendon. I match the Somerset’s
A Descendant of Regicide #19 on Charles’s Death Warrant.
We did not leave without a fight.
Charles Edward Miller said:
May God forgive those who do not show a Christian faith.
Wut said:
You troll.
Charles Edward Miller said:
May Jesus change your soul before it is too late.
Charles Edward Miller said:
You pig
MILLER'S MUM'S VAG said:
Religion: cake for cretins.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Don’t be so stupid!
Charles Edward Miller said:
You will find out one day about the Divine, Your ignorance!
Wad Eating Miller said:
WHAT CLASS OF SLAVERY DO YE PRACTICE
julie Spencer said:
Im the great granddaughter 25 x of henry 111– Im connected by his grandson Henry Earl the 3rd of lancaster– his daughter Blanche Plantagenet Married My 20x grandfather Sir John Moriuex ( the knight) their daughter Elizabeth Lucus (Born Morieux) had lucinda Lucas and the rest is so simple to trace in my moms dads line–
Mike said:
Hi! Me and my wife did our family tree’s. We are both descendants of the Plantagenet family line. And my wife is Mary Boleyn’s 14 great grand daughter. But, my question is this if we are related to such royalty lines then some of these abandon castles that be longed to our blood line why are we not entitled to receive them if the DNA test and other show that is our family? I’m just a little curious on that matter! Thank you and have a blessed day!
Bill said:
I’d like to compare notes with you. You can find me at FTDNA.
Apparently DNA is only circumstantial evidence. DNA is not a deciding factor in violent crime court cases or determining parentages.
If you could get a DNA test from Professor Turi King, better have a viable family tree.
Chances are you won’t be a match to Richard III either.
The R-M269 haplogroup seems to have produced Plantagenet kings, Richard isn’t one of them.
The book “The King’s Son” 2nd and 3rd editions, the author talks about my Plantagenet connection, but won’t mention me because I didn’t sign a contract that I didn’t like some of the terms.
None the less, the author (in personal conversations) did feel I am a direct descendant of Hamelin (D’Anjou) DeWarenne 5th Earl of Surrey (1124-1202) and eldest half brother to Henry II. My common ancestor with King George VI is Hamelin’s father Count Geoffrey D’Anjou (1113-1155).
So since you understand paternal DNA lines, men would have a direct father to son connection (which actually made a man a king by divine right (God said so..)) Ask the Stuarts and the King Georges of the earlier times (before Parliament).
I’ve always thought, kings won territory from killing other kings in battle. (ref. “Vikings.” (“eat dirt Ivar!!”)). A king was a king because of his father, not mother, queen or otherwise. So in the case of DNA is safe to assume Richard III was not a paternal Plantagenet.
Richard’s mom had to lie about his father, or she would have been put to death for “conspiracy against the king.” The church would have had their go at it too. Remember Henry VIII created the church of England and barred the Catholic church for lack of a divorce.
Yet the Tudors didn’t know Rick wasn’t royalty, nor anyone else except for mom and the real dad. The country still had the peasants revolt fresh in their minds when Richard III was born. Don’t know why Anne and Rick II didn’t get together. I guess crusaders were hard to pin down long enough? I don’t know.
Anyway, if you are at FTDNA look me up. I’m set to “private,” and not in any study groups. If you are at least R-M269 seems you might be what you claim. I read somewhere Queen Victoria and I share maternal DNA somewhere also, I haven’t researched that yet. Haplo is T2a1a2.
There might be a chance your blood type is “B.” B blood types originated in the Middle East. There’s a legend that monarchs descended from King David, and God claims ALL of David’s descendants, so I wonder…
With DNA the problem is this: it is best to have the DNA of the subject you are being tested against also. Though with enough people and a consensus can form (i.e. DNA distribution amongst the population, and various social groups). This is what works well with parents and kids. We can get DNA from a parent and their child.
21st great grandpa, is a little (a lot) different. Ya gotta find him first. Richard was under a damn parking lot (car park, where ever you are). But you could get the father of Europe tested (Charlemagne) but there’s some country issues, archaeology stuff, legalities, etc, much less any deceased noble baron land owner.
If you haven’t checked yet, LDS has a family history center. When my grandfather became a Mormon they did his family tree all the way back to Hamelin DeWarenne (1124-1202), I don’t know why this isn’t viable enough for research. Its where I began my search though. Always plenty of unanswered questions no one wants to attempt, Never enough answers.
Good luck in your search.
Godspeed.
garlichoney said:
@Mike Three years after your question, but others may be curious…
As you’ve found links between you and families that owned castles, etc., in Europe, you wonder about claiming them.
TL;DR: Owning a castle is emotionally satisfying, particularly when it is a part of one’s family history, but the cost outweighs the benefits for most people — OR — Good heavens man! Why would you want a castle?
First off, most Europeans are related to royalty. Most people with a good amount of English blood will be descended from Edward III. This is millions of people, alive today, who are descended from King Edward III of England.
But how to lay claim to a castle or estate?
You’d need to document your lineage. Using online genealogy sites is not even close to good enough. People enter errors on those sites A LOT. Some do so on purpose, others are just careless, some are malicious, and some are just plain hopeless. You cannot believe genealogy sites. You cannot believe the Mormon church, either, as they do not check their records. The Mormon church is behind many, if not most, genealogy sites, and is probably the greatest contributor to all the false and misleading information on ancestry all over the Internet. The claim of the person above who said Americans have clogged up the IGI (International Genealogical Index) with sheer nonsense was correct, and his comment refers to the Mormon church, whether he knows it or not. (I think it was RayJWarren, and his comment was not America bashing, as some think, but a statement of fact.) Do not believe the genealogies presented by the Mormon church, or what you find on any genealogy site, as they are not accurate, and OFTEN flat-out wrong. Again, the Mormons do not check their information, and are known for not checking their information.
That said, you can start with the information you find on genealogy sites, and then write to the record keepers in the area each ancestor was born, lived, was married, did military service, and died. You’ll probably get documentation from Church baptismal records, marriage records, etc., back into the 1700s. You might be fortunate enough to get the documentation back even further in time, to the 1600s, and if you’re lucky, to the 1500s (but don’t count on that). Some genealogy sites offer such information for a fee, but you can write to whomever keeps the records in each village, or wherever, yourself.
Next, get your DNA tested. Copy and paste “Tracey Anne OBrien” into your brower’s search function while you’re reading this article on the Plantagenets. You’ll get a lot of hits, as Tracey is active in this comment section. Skim through all her comments on this blog, and read up on her DNA testing. She mentions names of companies she’s used (four of them, at least), and what sort of information she received from each. Decide which company you wish to start with, and contact them.
Then, you must find out if your lineage and DNA match up with whomever the castle in question is supposed to have been inherited by. Some notable families have their DNA information (or some of it) posted online. If not, just tuck away your test results, in case they are asked for later. DNA won’t prove you’re in a line of inheritance, but it could help your case.
Now let’s say you find you are a descendant of Big Unclaimed Castle, seemingly abandoned centuries ago. What next?
First, remember you are one of MANY. Next, you must look up Big Unclaimed Castle (or whatever the castle in question is called) online, and see if it truly is unclaimed or abandoned. Someone almost certainly owns it, or at least owns the property on which it stands.
Next, you might be able to purchase it. If you have loads of money, you can speak with the property owners. That might be the Crown of whatever country your castle is in, or it might be a private person. Who or whatever owns it, you should be able to find the information easily online.
But let’s say you are the direct descendant, or closest to direct descendant, of Big Unclaimed Castle, and you have all the documentation to prove it. What then? Can you afford to fly or drive to the castle? If not, admire photos of it online, and dream.
If money is no problem, you can arrange to purchase it from the current owner. But let’s say for the sake of argument that the current owners are legally forced to hand over the castle to you; can you afford to keep it? The taxes on the property alone might be daunting. Add to that the maintenance, if it is at all in any sort of shape. Few have the resources for that.
Check out Lady Colin Campbell online. She is a Jamaican heiress who bought an English castle of historical interest and importance, Castle Goring. Despite her wealth, putting the castle in shape and keeping it that way is expensive, and the reason behind why she went on one of those reality TV shows where people live in the jungle, or wherever it was, and are filmed for a couple weeks. The money she made from that helped, I believe, to re-roof the place. (She was a known figure, and is titled, and bossy, which all made her a candidate for the show; simply buying a castle won’t get most people anywhere but in debt.) She writes popular books on notable people, as well. This brings in a pretty penny, and I’d guess helps keep the heat on. Oh, and after extensive restoration, using her own good taste, and filling the place with beautiful, meaningful antiques, she has opened up a part of Castle Goring for weddings, again to help pay the castle’s huge demand for maintenance, while allowing other people the joy of experiencing a true, historical English castle.
Owning a castle is emotionally satisfying, particularly when it is a part of one’s family history, but the cost outweighs the benefits for most people.
I’ve got to run, without being able to edit this. I hope it helps you and your wife, or someone else wondering whether or not they could lay claim to a castle.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
It takes me 3 hours to clean my 50 sq metre flat so wouldnt like to imagine how many days or weeks it would take to clean a castle. Castles are uncomfortable, expensive and difficult to maintain unless you have very deep pockets and can pay an army of cleaners and gardeners. As you have mentioned most casltes already have owners and those that are not just a pile of ruins were kind of forced to open them up to the public after the second world war just to have some money coming in for the upkeep. inheriting a castle is more of a hindernace than a gain. I´d settle for a little cottage on the estate which can easily be maintained with a little garden that I could easily maintain at the weekends.
Stefanie Clements said:
I’m descended from that line through John of Gaunt’s daughter, Joan of Beaufort. Her mother was Katherine Swinford.
Stefanie Clements said:
Forgot to add that Edward III was my 21x great grandfather and my DNA is 84% British.
Panties spy said:
And the rest KOREAN.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I know I am replying to an old post but as you said your DNA is 84% British and you are descended from Edward III. I thought Id reply, Royalty from centuries ago had very little or no British DNA as they were all descended from Scandinavian Vikings, French, Flemish German, Dutch and the Merovignans. Our present royalty of England have German and Greek blood and probably only a very small percentage of British( if any). If your DNA test only went back 6 generations then It would be English but if you do one that goes back thousands of years the results might be very different. My recent DNA was British but when I went back to the 1000s and before it turned out it was Merovignan, Flemish ,Frankish, Viking, Dutch, Russian, German, Saxon and a whole lot more. If you are from Virginia or Massachesettes then many can trace their ancestors back to royalty too as this is where mamy noble families settled in the 17th century (not the Pilgrim fathers). Many people seem to forget that British royalty would not carry English DNA as the majority of them were not English and many couldnt even speak the language and spoke in French or German.All the royal European houses are one big happy family as they married between cousins for centuries and that is why the Romanofs are cousins of the Windsors who are cousins of the Bourbons etc etc.
Bill said:
Hey Tracey,
Um, had a discovery you should know about. I found a YDNA study conducted on King Tut’s family, by Zahi Hawas, and other scientists in 2008, pub in 2010.
Seems I am a paternal descendant of that family. My FTDNA certificate calls out those same gene locations as in the study.
Though here’s what’s kicking me. I know the Plantagenets believed they descended from a “Joseph.” Some say Arimathea, some say old testament Joe. If I could get somebody to return me answer I would know for sure, but, odds are pointing to old testament Joseph (coat of many colors, son of Jacob and Rachel).
Ahmed Osram author of “A Stranger in the Valley of the Kings,” provides a strong argument that Tut’s great grandfather “Yuya,” is the biblical Joseph Vizier and father of Pharaoh. (the Plantagenets descended from). Otherwise why would my DNA match Tut’s family, paternally? I have another Big Y match, our common ancestor lived 2300 years ago.
What caught my interest was Yuya’s gold mask eerily looks like my daughter! A parent knows their kid’s face. I now have four modern family members who have a few ancient “doppelgängers?” Can’t be coincidence, just tracing the Y chromosome/ surname alone.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi, Looks like that at the end of the day we are really one big happy family, My son whose father is Spanish got a dna match with Ramses II or III(cant remember which one) He probably had this as he had some North African DNA as the Moors where in Al Andalus for nearly 800 years. When you start digging you just can´t stop and it turns out we really are all related one way or another, Which is incredible if you think about it..
garlichoney said:
@Bill, if the claims made by the genomics company that looked at what they saw on the TV and decided they could decode King Tut’s DNA (hint: they couldn’t) — if those claims are true, then half of Western European men are related to King Tut.
As for Plantagenet claims, again, don’t trust what long-ago rulers claimed as their ancestry; this was part of their image, and making claims to famous or influential people, especially from the Bible, was one of their tricks to try to prove they were appointed by God to rule over the masses, and just plain better and more entitled than everyone else. This is a known fact; it’s what was done.
As for resemblances to people many generations back, it’s a fluke. Scroll down to the chart, to see how much genetic material an individual gets from each generation before theirs: http://dgmweb.net/Ancillary/OnE/NumberAncestors.html
It’s like Tracey says, “Looks like that, at the end of the day, we are really one big happy family.”
Jenn Cunningham said:
Hi, I have found a written account that Sir William Leslie Dick (my 8x gr grandfather), father-in-law of Sir Andrew Lauder of Fountainhall, 5th Baronet (my 7x gr grandfather), was a direct line descendant of the Plantagenet royal house. Does anyone have any clue which Plantagenet he was descended from? My father’s ancestry DNA test came back as:
Ireland 49% (included Scotland which is where we are from, so Celtic in general)
Europe West 26% (Angles, Saxons & Jutes? No German names in his pedigree)
Great Britain 16%
Scandinavia 5%
Barb said:
Well that line still exists in my sons, myself, brother, in my uncles, my cousins, all of us direct descendants of the Plantagenets, Yorks, Angevins, Normans through my grandfather…we are Americans without noble titles, yet we are direct descendants and the line still exists through us:)
Steve H said:
Getting this back on track, one of the things to consider is had those restrictions not been placed, the hundreds (if not thousands) of people who are descended through John Gaunt (Plantagenant) Beaufort and Katherine Swynford would not be here today. Many of our lineages are issued through Joan Beaufort and Sir Ralph Neville.
There are who knows how many thousands of people who have ancestry ties with the British Monarchy, but that doesn’t make them a part of the Royalty. It’s interesting from a genealogical point of view, but that’s all that it is (trust me, Beaufort has ironically come up in both my father’s and mother’s ancestor lines).
So I’m inclined to thank the monarchy (*wry smile*). Otherwise I wouldn’t have my family lines-
bill said:
Hey Steve, I thought the Beauforts and Somersets were legitimized through parliament.
Michael said:
So! Where are they today, and do they have a claim to the throne of England
billfoley63 said:
No they don’t have right to the throne of the United Kingdom. The succession to the throne is governed by Parliament and only descendants of Sophia of Hanover (mother of George I) have succession rights.
Bill Warren said:
Some are in the U.S. And probably not, eventhough they were royalists. They helped build America instead.
garlichoney said:
A “royalist” is simply someone who backed the king at whatever time and place in history is relevant. It is not a person of royal blood, or even a person related to those of royal blood.
Royalists did help build the US, but by definition they did not want to rule themselves; they supported the king.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I am now investigating my distant relatives who were either on The Mayflower or descendants of those who were. William Brewster is one of those and I discovered it through my family tree and DNA matches, I know that some of the Pilgrims first went to a place called Lienden in the South of The Netherlands and by coincidence I have some South Dutch DNA which could be just a coincidence (Or maybe some actually settled there as I have lots of matches from Holland too). . A lot of my ancestors were Puritans, quakers and if I go back far enough just about every religion possibe including Ashenazi jews from Eastern Europe. I even found a few DNA matches who had died in concentration camps in Belsen and Auchwitz photos of them which made me a bit tearful. I know that none of these people are direct descendants but as they carry part of my DNA they are connected somewhere down the line through a common ancestor- My great great grandmother was from Harwich Essex where the Mayflower and Capt John Smith lived but thats just another small coincidence of life -I seem to come from a long line of religious trouble makers, one being Oliver Cromwells right hand man Capt Ralph Margery who got himself and his wife excommunicated from the church. They were from a pretty suffolk village called Walsham le Willows where one part of my family lived from the 1500s up until the late 1700s. When this horrid pandemic is over I will go and visit the village and investigate a bit more as one of the manor houses where one of my direct ancestors lived (Samuel Canham) still exists .
I advise anyone who is trying to trace their ancestors to take into consideration geograpphical locations as well as DNA matches plus of course any documents to back up your claim,
Bill said:
So your not even going to read my comments? I have a great grandfather I share with King George VI. I ain’t asking about Royalists and haven’t in quite sometime.
So what part are you not understanding about my and King George VI’s great grandfather are you not understanding?
Steph Smith said:
I am a Plantagenet descendant myself(Bastard line) via the connection of Elizabeth Stratton, who married John Thorndike, founder of Ipswhich, Mass.
Tulan said:
I watched an episode of “Who Do You Think You Are – British”. Actor Danny Dyer, who is in the series “East Enders” was the subject of the show I watched.
Danny Dyer is a direct descendent of King Richard III and the Plantagenet family…… not illegitimate. Dyer is also a direct descendent of Thomas Cromwell the right hand man of King Henry the Eighth, and of Robert Gosnold who lost everything (lands, titles, money) for being a Royalist in the English Civil War in the late 1600s.
King Richard the Third is the 22nd great grandfather, and Thomas Cromwell is the 15th great grandfather, of actor Danny Dyer.
Very interesting information.
AJNutch said:
He is not a direct descendant of Richard III. He doesn’t have any descendants as far as we are aware.
Bill said:
Correct! Richard III had no descendants, maybe Richard III’s dad, but there is DNA disputes over who Richard III’s dad was. Archaeologists were only able to muster Richard III’s mitochondrial DNA. Can’t seem to find his father.
grdtobin said:
Parliament was founded by Alan Rufus and officially opened by his brother Stephen at York in 1089. They were male-line members of what is commonly called the House of Rennes, the sovereign house of Brittany which an 11th century Angevin document describes as descended from Count Ridoredh of Vannes (mid-800s). These Dukes ended in the male line with Stephen’s grandson Conan IV who was succeeded by his daughter Constance (1161-1201), wife of Geoffrey Plantagenet (1158-1186), son of Henry II of England. Their son was the ill-fated Arthur I, murdered by King John or so the gaoler said.
Constance’s inheritance was very much a case of female preference because legitimate male-line members of this House are recorded into the 1300s. It would delight but not surprise me if some were alive today.
Tiffany said:
I have been working on my family tree for several years and it seems that I can trace it back to the legitimate line of the plantagenete line despite reports of that line having had ended. I love to find out how to further validate this tree.
Bend over said:
Just carry on making the fucking thing up and you’ll be fine.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Clean up your vocabulary!
Bill said:
You must be talking about the DeWarenne line. We’re still here. If you’re a match at FamilytreeDNA we might meet again there.
Good luck with your search.
Patti Jobe said:
I am a descendant from the House of Plantagenet
Ozpooers said:
ARSE.
Charles Edward Miller said:
Show the lady some respect.
William Thompson said:
I am a direct relation Hare , to John Hare who Married Lady Jane Neville in 1415 ., Janes Mother is Joan of the Garter who is Catherine Swynford and John Plantagenet are Joans parents who are my 18th gg parents . My Question is were the Swynford Children legit or illegit ?
James said:
The “Swynford children”-the Beauforts-were illegitimate as they were born whilst their father was still married to his second wife, Constance of Castille; she didn’t die until 1394. Two years later, Gaunt married Swynford, and in 1397 John, Henry, Thomas and Joan Beaufort (born 1373, 1375, 1377 and 1379 respectively) were legitimated by Act of Parliament and Papal concurrence. Henry IV later inserted a clause in their act of legitimation barring them or their descendants from the succession.
Steph Smith said:
I also can do that-are you a descendant of Elizabeth Stratton, by chance?
Steph Smith said:
The Beauforts always felt that this was unfair. I guess they got the last laugh as Margaret Beaufort saw her son become King!
grdtobin said:
Steph, it was unfair that they were legitimised.
James said:
I am an American that can trace my family to the Plantagenet and Wessex. I’ve wondered if this means anything for me? You’re well versed on the history I thought perhaps you might be able to help.
Thank you.
James
liamfoley63 said:
Hi James, I think it’s great you can trace your lineage that far back. It will only mean something to you personally and not officially because there are literally thousands of people descended from Royal lines.
Steph Smith said:
James-me too! Are you a descendant of Elizabeth Stratton by chance?
Christina Veselik said:
I’m related to almost every Plantagenet multiple times through 4 immediate Direct Lines. In fact its now starting to become very bizarre, i’m really starting to understand this whole bloodline thing and I am shocked how many royal family members I have.
I’m wondering if this is common thing?
liamfoley63 said:
Yes, it actually is a common thing.
grdtobin said:
“Related by immediate direct lines”. Briefly stated, “descended”.
Steve said:
I think it’s great that so many people can appreciate both the paternal and maternal bloodlines of their specific family tree. Yes, for those interested, we’re all linked through the Plantagent line in some form for fashion.
In the pursuit of genealogy, in the end if you’re persistent (or have done the maximum of DNA markers, or have a well documented family lineage), there is a linkage. Here’s where I’m going to say direct lines don’t really matter, because England several centuries ago established the rules regarding the Plantagent lines (as a descendant of both Cecily duRaby deNeville as well as Kathrine Swynford on both sides of the family)- be happy with what you have been able to prove. Very few can provide actual documentation 🙂
What I’m going to ask everyone here is what does it mean to you, personally? And you don’t have to answer here, but rather answer the question for yourself.
As I am a deNeville, duRaby, Plantagent among so many major Houses, Lords, et al… in the course of my research, I have no claim to those ancient lines. None of do in the end. But I’m proud of my heritage.
The question I pose to everyone is why you’re pursing this? There’s nothing monetary to gain in the end.
Bill said:
Not everything is about monetary gain. For me I’ve learned so much about history, and I see how history applies. History is there for us to learn. Like the ancients, it’s proof we exist. We know that ancients existed. Some are so ancient they get moved to the “Legends” box. Could that be how we live thousands of years, through memories? If we took greater care of history, we’d know those answers.
It is fascinating to see how history affected my family, though no ones family had an easy go back then. With DNA if we can’t find written history we can at least find a common ancestor. The fascination with DNA and history is: Does DNA get programed from historical events, or is history genetic? But that would indicate life is predetermined, and the spiritual element comes into play.
That’s what ancestry has been to me. I’m a mechanic, not a doctor.
Bill said:
There’s actually two Plantagenet lines. I’m the other line everyone lost track of. I’m the great grandson of Geoffrey D’Anjou, through an unbroken, noble, male lineage.
The Earls of Warren didn’t die out yet.
Bill D'IL-Do said:
You Cretin
Bill said:
Cretin huh. Takes one to know one. You must be a war vet too, who got blown up in Iraq as well. Do Cretins fight tyranny, corruption, and stupidity? Obviously you didn’t. Seems you’re amongst the stupid, to let corruption run rampant. Go get some world education before you pick on folks you know nothing about. I’ll knock a fly off your ass at 1000yds, or woop your ass, or die trying! You kids of this generation are handed everything, who never lifts a finger around the house, and bitches about not having more, and then are dismayed when ya get kicked out. Go play your video games you socially inept troll. I’m tired of you harrassing nice people. Send me a personal email with your address so I can kick your butt out of your mom’s house, and drop your ass off at school, where ya prolly should be, ya friggin kid!
Go make sure mommy can pay your internet now. Only a cretin like yourself can look yourself in the mirror with confidence. Its obvious your blinded from the truth. Damn kids!
Bildo huh, like I haven’t heard that before. You are not original. Musta been what you were doing when ya posted your crap! It musta got lost in such a big an asshole as yours.
Go unplug and go do something for your country folks would be proud of!
Apologies to the good folks here trying to learn. You have done a nice job Mr. Foley, I appreciate your efforts. Sorry mine aren’t perfect, but jerks need to be dealt with.
Lisa Huffman said:
Most people apparently didn’t understand that your article specifically meant direct “male” line, i.e., share the same Y-DNA through sole paternal ancestry all the way to a Plantagenet, via father, grandfather, great grandfather, etc, etc.. Many people are Plantagenet descendants. I am many times over, as are all the people posting above. But there’s really no current definitively known “direct male” descendants as far as I was aware. And even the one you mention, apparently the male living Beaufort Somerset descendant who everybody assumed would match Richard III’s G-P287 Y-DNA, was found to be I-M70 (I believe, although not sure where somebody got this to confirm). So it would appear either Richard III was a bastard, or somebody in his ancestry up to their common ancestor, or somebody in the Somerset line was, and so possibly there may not be any living direct male descendant lines left, or at least cannot be definitively known. HOWEVER, a couple years ago, I started looking for some when all the Y-DNA controversy was going on, as I figured there had to be another male line besides the Somerset line, and that one other potential line from a Mr. De Warren from France who said he had a direct male line to Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, (1113 – 1151), a son of Edward III’s 4th great grandfather, which had yet another Y-DNA that didn’t match either, and his line probably has even more possibilities for illegitimacy since that goes back a couple hundred more years. But I think I might have found some possible direct living male descendant lines through the Cornwall lines originating with Richard “The Lionheart” Plantagenet (1209-1272), Duke of Cornwall, & King of German & Romans, and brother to Henry III of England. I was able to get all the way to a male descendant named, Henry Hamilton Cornwall, who died 1951, Paddington, London, however, I was unable to find records for any sons, although that doesn’t mean there aren’t any (many online searches don’t have records if the person is still living). There was another Cornwall line, the Barrons of Moccas, who were more well known, as it descended from an older Cornwall son farther back, but there was a switch to a female heir, Catherine, in the 1700s, when the male line died out on that line, and Catherine Cornwall’s father was the last living direct male Cornwall Plantagenet descendant in that line. However, the Henry Hamilton Cornwall I found who died in London in 1951, wasn’t a descendant of that branch. I also think there could be some potential direct male Cornwall lines who may have living male descendants in Australia, as some of the lines moved there, but then I couldn’t find more records and just didn’t look into those lines further. If there are any Cornwall surname projects, it would be interesting to see if any of them have the same Y-DNA as either the Beaufort Somerset line, or Richard III. And if they get a match to one, then they can try and trace back through their male line and see where it goes. It could also help confirm which line might be the legitimate one if there’s a match to one and the male line can be traced back. Or maybe it might match the French De Warren line to Geoffrey Plantagenet of Anjou, although I don’t know what the Y-DNA he had was, and not sure they ever released that information, only that it didn’t match either Richard III, or the Somersets, so basically knows who is legitimate, if any of them are, but right now, it appears at a minimum, at least two are not.
Lisa Huffman said:
Correction to my post above. The Cornwall lines I found were not from King Richard “The Lionheart”. But from Richard Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans, who was the son of King John of Lackland, and nephew of King Richard the Lionheart. Their lines took the surname of “Cornwall” instead of Plantagenet. Sorry for any confusion.
holygrail2341 said:
you have forgotten about the Welsh descendants to this Royal House of Plantagenet
and they are the offspring of Princess Joan of England daughter of John I King of England, Princess Joan married Llywelyn the Great Prince of all Wales and they had a son Welsh Prince David Griffith gr. grandchild of Henry II King of England; this forgotten Welsh Prince David is a link in the Carolingian line of succession that descends to the great Catholic monarch a legendary figure in French prophecy and a character found in biblical fact depicted as the red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads: who does live today and will answer the prophecy of King Nebuchadnezzar dream with the feet of iron and clay on Nebuchadnezzar’s mighty statue representing the fifth and final empire that has been chronicled in this dream.
liamfoley63 said:
Yes, there are many Plantagenet descendants via the female line, but my article was about straight male line descendants.
liamfoley63 said:
Also, Joan of England married Alexander II, King of Scots June 21, 1221, at York Minster. The Joan that married the Prince of Wales was an illlgitmate daughter of King John.
Joe kirwan said:
I remember reading of an older lady by the name of Plantagenet in the obits section of the san francisco chronicle about thirty years ago.
dalecrice said:
So: According to the electronic site called Geni they have linked my maternal line to Margaret Beaufort as my Great Aunt and her father as my 14th great grandfather. Making Henry VII my 2nd cousin and Henry VIII my 3rd cousin. His sons by Blount, & Seymour are my 3rd cousins. His love interest Anne Boleyn is my Great Aunt via her sister Mary Boleyen and her daughter Catherine Carey are 12th and 13th great grandmothers. Making queen Elizabeth I my 2nd cousin by her mother Anne. I have proof in DNA that that my 2nd cousin Sir Robert Dudley 1532 is my 9th great grandfather matching his 2nd cousin 23/25 markers on Y chromosome and his 6th cousin Robert Sutton 1637 on Family Tree is a match at 59/67 markers. Dudley also married my Great Aunt Lettice Knolleys and had son who did not live. His other sons died out in Italy about 1700….Therefore Dudley’s Mother is our great Aunt and her father Guileford a great grandfather. There are 8 of us surviving TUDOR great grandchildrin in AMERICA you can see some of the doppleganger faces on my page on Face Book D. Charles Rice. Known and Proved Plantagenent descendant.
Brandy Fullerton said:
Where were you able to compare your DNA with your named matches? Supposedly, through my Howard lines I am descended from Nobles and Royals. Would love to prove or disprove it with DNA. Thank you. 🙂 I’m also in the USA.
dalecrice said:
Joe Kirwan: As a Plantagenet descended from Richard III and Edward IV through my maternal line puts them at my 2nd cousin. My Male line I was able to prove by inductive logic….Fathers hand off to sons exactly what they got from their father’s to their son on Y chromosome…so if you know your Y chromosome numbers that is what you got from your dad. Each family line is listed at Family Tree DNA and if you take the time to look at all the cousin lines that match your own you may find that you will be very close indeed to your direct line. Since my line is 23/25 to a Second Cousin and 59/67 to a known Sixth Cousin of Robert Dudley 1533 who is also in line as a known member of the family you have all the information to conclude that I represent his line as stated by my father with accuracy of more than 91% to be True. Cousins vary from other cousins in the Dudley line at 3 allels per 2 sites on a 12 marker test. When you run the nubers up the tests values that 6 allels per 4 sites on the 25 marker test and so on.
The values of your own line will be evident if there is a first cousin or third cousin to compare your values to…you must find the ratio in order to understand the cousin lines. DCR
Brandy Fullerton said:
…and also through Mosley line.
Carol A Weaver said:
My husband does genealogy and we found he is of Plantagenet line and Tudor ,and he went back to at least Henry the 2nd-3rd line. It is directly from his mom to my husband and our sons. Actually Presidents of U.S, are in the line too, and my husband’s ancestor is George Washington. 1st President of U.S. and Winston Churchill. Too much to even explain, of course.
It shows though that he is also in line with Queen Elizabeth and Diana Spencer and brother being a distant cousins, but so is Duchess Katherine Middleton. It somehow connects? He has worked at this since retirement. He is about age of Prince Charles
After the War Of The Roses, I thought the line of Plantagenet was gone, too, but yet it certainly was not after we did the genealogy it showed itself as being quite different. .
garlichoney said:
Join the crowd! There are millions of people on earth today who could, if they chose, trace their ancestors back to the Plantagenets. As for “distant cousins,” we’re all distant cousins. Everyone on earth is related, if you go back far enough.
Coll said:
Geoffrey Plantagenet was my first Plantagenet family member and Princes Thomas was my last, bearing the name! The name line in my family ended in 1400 when marguerite married and adopted her husbands name.
BARBARA KEILMAN said:
MY 21 GREAT GRANDPA EDWARD 1ST KING OF ENGLAND !! MY 8TH GREAT GRANDPA WENT KING SCHOOL !! I HAVE LADY GADIVA,KING OF YORK,KING OF DUBLIN,KING OF LEINSTER, KING OF GWEDDYNN, KING OG GWENYDD, KING OF ENGLAND, BARBARA KEILMAN. 1519 2ND STREET SW, CULLMAN,ALABAMA 35055 !! 256-507-4369 !!
Bill said:
Looking like Edward I and Richad III don’t have “royal,” or even “noble” DNA. Richard was the son of a Jewish man/ Flemish butcher. (haplo group G-P287) Looks like Henry II was the only true royal Plantangenet. Seems England has been lied to for a lot of years!
Only God may save then Queen!
Matt A said:
I recently found that my lineage goes to a man named Sir Thomas King who married Johanna Beauchamp and I was also able to trace this male lineage all the way to Godfrey I, Count of Louvain and beyond. I don’t really believe that we have royalty though as the internet is not always accurate. Although I do try to stay optimistic at times. It started because I found out I’m related to a guy named Michael King the Immigrant from Norwich England. If anyone can shed some light to this, I greatly appreciate it!
Daniel Castelo Branco Guimaraes said:
Hi,
I am a Direct descendant of Phillipa of Lancaster.
Laura said:
I was confused as to why Henery the fifth mentioned to his soon to be wife that he as a plantagent.
rollosomerset said:
I am direct descendant of John Beaufort, son of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford. My more direct descendant is Lord Charles Somerset, second son of the 5th Duke. Very interested to read your article. My brothers DNA was used in the identification of Richard 111.
Bill said:
Then you must know Richard III’s yDNA haplo group is GP287, which is common among European Jewish men. Jews had a rough time then too.
For Richard III to be a grandson of Henry II, he would have to have a yDNA haplo group of RM269, like King George VI. Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V is Henry II’s father. GP287 would not make sense in this case.
Now Richard III and Anne of York are mtDNA siblings (same mom), but Prof. Turi King cannot find a male contributor for Richard’s dad.
Could mean Richard III was the son of a flemish butcher, and Henry Tudor did not win the throne from a true male descendant of a King.
I thought sons inherited the throne from their King fathers.
Dad has to be a king for a son to become one.
May not be in Richard’s case.
Richard also had no kids either. The protestant/ catholic war rages on…
AJNutch said:
Richards Father, Richard Duke of York wasn’t a King?
Bill said:
Well, Richard II was off on crusade when Richard III was made. Is why science cannot find Richard III’s dad.
AJNutch said:
Richard II never went on crusade, he was deposed by Henry IV who was his cousin. Then came his son Henry V & then his son Henry VI who was deposed by Edward IV brother of Richard III whose father was Duke of York, all descended from Edward III.
Bill said:
Hmm, was not Edward I the son of Henry II? If that were true, then Richard III would have my haplo type (RM269), not GP287. Right?
And I thought Henry III and IV were locked up in a tower to die, by Richard III.
Those darn documentaries need better fact checkers!
But, for some reason King George VI and I are cousins. Our common ancestor is from around Hamelin and Henry II’s time (1124 AD).
AJNutch said:
No Edward I is the son of Henry III who was the son of King John, Henry IV is the son of John of Gaunt who was a younger son of Edward III. He was the brother of Edward the Prince of Wales (The Black Prince) who was the father of Richard II. The Princes in The Tower were the sons of Richard III’s brother Edward IV, Edward V & his brother Richard.
Bill said:
Ok, its straight now, sorry, and thank you. I’ve been stuck on sequential order from Henry II, disn’t go that way it seems, Henry II’s successor was Richard the Lionheart, after him it was King John Lackland.
Sorry ‘bout the mess…
AJNutch said:
No problem, glad I could be of help.
Bill said:
Hey Aj,
So here’s my dilemma. I did one of those DNA tests. I was once contacted by a book author that pointed out we both have Shepherd cousins, as in King George VI.
Seems my common ancestor is Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V.
Seems I’m a descendant of Hamelin D’Anjou DeWarenne. King Henry II’s older “half, “ or fraternal twin brother.
Yep, all from the other side of the sheets to some extent.
So if all this is true, poses another issue, regarding Richard III. Because this particular Y chromosome from Geoffrey V went two directions and Hamelin and Henry both got a copy, as did their male descendnants.
If Richard III was a maleline descendant of Henry II, Richard’s and my Y chromosome should match, like King George VI and I, but it doesn’t.
I also don’t match Beuforts or Somersets, but I do match King George VI?
What gives?
Maybe you could triangulate something?
My interest lies in Geoffrey V’s father (maybe grandfather) Foulkes D’Anjou IV, because he was one of the nine noble knights who founded the Knights Templar.
I’m also starting to see a pattern of combat related PTSD within my male lineage. My father seems to be the only one who hasn’t been in the military out of all our generations.
I wonder if a behavior like PTSD is included in our evolutionary processes.
garlichoney said:
@Bill If the Shepherds you mention are Cybil’s family, let me know what you need, and I’ll have a word with someone who might help.
Alan J H Richards said:
I am the 12th gt Grandson of Edward IV through the Basset family into
the Richards of Landewednack family of Cornwall, re Arthur Plantagenet
Viscount Lisle my 11th Gt Grandpa.. my 6th Gt Grandma was Amie Amelia Basset who married
Edward Richards, in the 16th century.I am twice his Gt Grandson because my
Gt Grandparents Richard and Sophia Richards were 1st cousins married in
1852. hence my double descent from Edward IV.
I am Alan Richards. descendant of the above King Edward IV..
Linda Acaster said:
Every line in history has many descendants because the wives DNA play into this. I am a descendent of Geoffrey & Matilda. He is my 27st Great Grandfather. There is new evidence that memories are passed on through the DNA and some of our traits may be expressed through them. I felt at home when visiting Plantagenet and did not understand why until I researched my line and was very surprised to learn some of my ancestors were from the House of Plantagenet as well as the House of York.
Bill said:
Would like to know more about these traits. I and King George VI have a common male ancestor. Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155). And yet don’t don’t match any Beauforts or Somersets. I have an unbroken male line to Count Geoffrey. According to Conisborogh Castle’s history, I’m built like Hamelin (my 21st GGF) and play guitar. I also play piano.
Oddly, my wife is a realtor, I’m a carpenter/ jack of all trades. Isabelle DeWarenne owned the land, Hameline built stuff. My wife is also a descendant of Bjorn Ironsides, I’m a descendant of Rollo through Isabelle. I’m also an mtDNA descendant of McCoys and Stewarts.
Zach said:
Bill what is your haplogroup?
Bill said:
R-BY45605. But this might not be enough. You also need to see the photos of my father and his brother and compare them to Hamelin’s lineage. Dad looks more like Charlemagne’s kid than his father’s. I grew up with a King Henry II/ William DeWarenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey, look-a-like, except he rode a Harley, not a horse, nor was my uncle or father a jouster. Both were big advocates of freedom, and being free.
To add a wrench to the spokes, my dad’s mom was a Stewart, dad’s father’s mom was a McCoy (through John McCoy born 1752 Scotland) Seems through the generations we all still “hang around” each other. Kinda weird how that works.
I also have an essay from a genealogist explaining why he thinks I’m a Plantagenet, a really compelling argument I might add.
Send me a message on FTDNA to collaborate more.
Iceberg said:
Bill, “I wonder if a behavior like PTSD is included in our evolutionary processes.” There will be a weakness or mutation in the brain that, when triggered, can lead to PTSD. That weakness is probably inherited, but not necessarily. Sounds like it may have come from your father’s mother’s side. Do you have an uncles who’ve been in combat, and come home with PTSD? Any men or women with anxiety issues? Any form of mental illness you can see in your parents or their siblings, or in your grandparents or their siblings?
You can post links to your family photos here. It would be interesting to see all the “lookalikes” in your family, with a side-by-side of photos of the paintings or drawings done of your ancestors. That sort of comparison of family members is fascinating, as would be the passages from the genealogist that explained why he thinks you’re a Plantagenet. You can always start a blog here on WordPress, post photos to it, and either link them here, or just let people know where to find them on your WordPress site or blog. It would be interesting, and inspiring!
Bill said:
Wanna talk family traits? I can’t post pictures to this blog, but I have a family member who looks just like William DeWarenne 3rd Earl. And over at Conisborough Castle there’s a depiction of Hamelin DeWarenne playing a guitar looking thing (a lute?).
I’m built just like him, tall and lanky, yet I too play guitar, and piano. I too am a land owner “because of my wife,” being a realtor.
I’m also the eldest sibling of my lot, but didn’t get a brother until I was 17. I’m the eldest of 10 kids. I can build and fix many things too, from automotive to aerospace, residences, and landscaping. I own an excavator and maintain it too.
Kind of odd how my life turned out.
I wanted to mention too, that Hamelin is my direct paternal great grandfather.
The Warren name is older than I anticipated! Yrt I’m starting to find the Warren name is older than their established “Varenne” France origin.
I’ve found that “Warane” means “a high plateau” in North Africa. “Ourane” is also another spelling of the same word, yet seems to abide by a french language influence.
Also, I’ve learned that “berber” means “barbarian,” which is what ancient Gauls and Spanish were called. Goths, Visigoths, and Ostrogoths (and others) were considered barbarians.
Geoffrey D’Anjou V’s great (+) grandfather was at Troy and killed by Hector, according to Homer.
Seems there’s some antiquity to address.
Les said:
My 9th g grandfather was Richard DeBerkley. So I too am descended from the Plantagenet line. Seems to be a lot of us. 😆😆
Alan Richards said:
I am Alan Richards re previous comment. Arthur Plantagenets daughter Frances
Plantagenet married Sir John Bassett of Umberley and Tehidy.1519 whos son was
John Father of Hannibal father of John Bassett father of Amie Amelia Bassett 1647
who married Richard Richards of Landewednack 1669 my 6th Great Grandparents
their 4th Gt Grandson and 4th Gt Granddaughter were Richard1826 and Sophia Richards 1818. who married in 1852
the 1st cousins who are my Gt Grandparents. So the direct decent from Arthur
Plantagenet Son of EDWARD IV by Elizabeth Wayte.. Arthur Plantagenet became
The Viscount Lisle. Uncle of Henry VIII. H ENRY spoke of him as the Kindest and
Gentleman of his Court. and a Knight of the Garter who,s Garter Badge is The Garter
Chapel of St George Chapel Windsor. of whom I am so proud.
gGgEM
Gary Ellis said:
I am related to Rowland Ellis of Wales. According to The Book Of Plantagenet he was related to Henry II of England. Rowland Ellis was my Eighth GreatGrandfather.
Brenda Dillon said:
I have found on Ancestry those who claim Margaret Plantagenet had an illegitimate son with Richard Packard, Ist Earl of Stonham. Has anyone else ever found this to be true?
Jenny P said:
I am curious if this is true as well
Jenny P said:
I actually found this on my tree and I am having a hard time believing it. I have some other connections to the Neville and some other sides but this is on the direct Packard male line.
Deanna Garrett said:
I have my Grandmothers Chart and Edward and Richard Plantegent are in our tree. I would like to find out if this is the Royal line and King Edward IV and King Richard his brother.
liamfoley63 said:
Do you have the dates of when they lived?
Aysia Carpenter said:
My sisters and I are direct decendants x)
Brenda WILKINSON said:
I have an older sister, and two younger brothers who are also descendants. Edward I king of England Plantagenet is my 19th great grandfather with his first wife, Eleanor of Castile. Their daughter Elizabeth Plantagenet, my 18th great grandmother lineage.
My daughter, and two grandsons and grandaughter are descendants also.
lylithrave12 said:
Hello cousin! 🙂
Gary said:
I myself am of the Planta Genet lineages the house of Tudor of Ghent of the Arovigan. My grandmothers maiden name was Jeńe. The names change rapidly after the catholic inquisition of languedoc.
lylithrave12 said:
What about my lineage and the Boleyns lineage? The Boleyn family are descendants of Geoffrey V of Anjou. And I am Geoffrey V of Anjou 32nd great granddaughter through Landy Anne Boleyn Shelton who is a Plantagenet because she is the descendant of Princess Elizabeth Plantagenet of Rhuddlan,countess of Hereford. Who married Humphrey de bouhn then had Lady Eleanor De bohun? So what about my family?
Bill said:
Wow! Finally a cousin! Dear Lylithrave, have you taken a DNA test?
I don’t know about maternal DNA, but, I’m a 22nd great grandson of Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V.
On MyHeritage, I might show up there as your cousin. I’m a direct male descendant of the DeWarenne’s. We DeWarenne/ Plantagenets are not extinct. Don’t know how the Beauforts, or Somersets got around Richard III’s rule (1555) about legitimacy.
Hamelin DeWarenne, was actually Geoffrey’s eldest son.
I guess that’s a big “thanks for nothing.”
Would have been nice had the Tudors won England from a legitimate king.
Richard III and I should be cousins, like King George VI and I, but Richard is not my cousin. Good thing I can’t
post pictures here; as it would cause quite a commotion.
I’m also a grandson of the McCoys, and Stewarts. Even Hamelin DeWarenne was married to a former Queen of Scotland.
Jenn Cunningham said:
I have two de Warenne ladies in my tree: Ava and Agnes, daughters of 2nd Earl of Surrey. Geoffrey D’Anjou lists as husband of 1st cousin 27x removed – his queen Mathilda was a granddaughter of Malcolm III, while my line goes through his son David I and her cousin Henry (Northumberland and Huntingdon). I also descend from Rollo in the line that goes through Hugh Taleboth (Talbot), the d’Estoutevilles, and the 1st Laird of Douglas. The 5th Laird of Douglas married a daughter of the 4th Stewart Steward which is how the two connect for me.
lylithrave12 said:
Hello there!
Nice to meet you cousin, yes apparently my family who are legitimate, kept marrying into royal families up until the late 1800s. The Shelton family are also Templars. Maybe we could help each other with our histories.
Tracey Anne O´Brien said:
I also did a DNA test with my heritage and I have Geofory D´Anjou as an uncle to my direct ancestor. My ancestors in the mid 1550 married into nobility and from the vickings up to the mid 16th century all my ancestors were either royalty or titled, That kind of went pear shaped when Henry VIII had some executed in The Tower of London and confiscated all their land and estates. We went from riches to rags and even some in the late 1700s ended up dying in The workhouse. Oh how the mighty fall!
Brandy Fullerton said:
Where did you upload your DNA to in order to find out the nobles you are related to?
Bill said:
FTDNA, MyHeritage, and Geni. But before all that, I was fortunate enough to discover two books about the Warren name. One was written in America, and titled “Some descendants of Arthur Warren of Weymouth Mass,” by Warren Woden Foster, and “the History and Genealogy of the Warren Family,” by Rev. Thomas Warren F.R.S.A.
This last book had two “Arthur Warrens” in the same era, seems a father and a son. Since the father isn’t mentioned further seems is safe to assume this was the Arthur that came to America maybe escaping the British civil war only to meet his demise at Weymouth Massachusetts, a failed colony.
MyHeritage claims an “Abraham Warren,” as my American grandfather, I suspect “Abraham” may have been a middle name, or a name Arthur went by for whatever reason.
The book by the Reverend says Arthur is the son of Sir Arnoldi Warren of Poynton.
The Mormons had my grandfather’s tree already done. They claimed that, not only were we Plantagenets, but that we were also descendants of Joseph of Arimathea (see “A Light in the West,” on YouTube) But, that last part, I’ve been unable to confirm. This particular Joseph means many things to other groups of people and has proven difficult to confirm paternally.
The DNA tests were to confirm my discoveries, and seems I’m a rare bird as well. I have one other match, but common ancestor happened 2300 years ago.
Yet no one wants to tackle my discoveries to assist or confirm.
Tracey Anne O´Brien said:
I did my DNA test with myheritage and then had the option of doing my family tree for a fee. I knew the names of my mothers family back to about 1800 and had access to billions of documents such as births, marriages and deaths, immigration passenger lists etc etc. I tripled checked all the information to make sure I wasn´t adding anyone who had nothing to do with my family. Apparently the Canham family married into the Constable family who were all nobility but I found some information saying that my 13th Grandfather Simon Canham was the cousin of Francis Constable and he was his tutor at Cambridge and Francis later went on to be Queen Elizabeth I royal printer but unfortunatly they lived in London and he and his wife died of the plague in 1647. I read that the Platagenets probably had a rare blood type (B) which is what I have too but don´t know if that is just hearsay.If you go back far enough nearly everyone is related in one way or the other to royalty either legitimatly or ilegitamatly.
Bill said:
Wow! Talk about family problems! William DeWarenne 3rd Earl told the crown at the time “because William the Conqueror didn’t do it alone.”
Makes ya wonder why he had to even remind authority of his dedication to his country.
Then the 1500’s came and an illegitimate king wrote the laws on legitimacy.
How can I have a common ancestor with King George VI and not with that other king?
What a tangled web we weave…
Eminpee said:
Jenn Cunningham we sound very similar.. I have all of those people in my family tree as well. I also have Matilda de Flandre… I named my daughter Matilda after her because my husbands (her dad) surname was a Baldwin.
Imagine my surprise when I do my tree and find out this Matilda de Flandre was in my tree as well as Boudouins (Baldwin). Ada Warenne and Mac Dabid (David l) Margaret of Huntingdon … there are so many I can’t name them all in reality.
What do we say we are? Do we say we descend from Royalty?
James Thornsberry said:
I’m a descended of king Henry the 3rd an of York house descended of the Charles the bald of the carolingian dynasty
James Thornsberry said:
My mistake not Henry the 3rd but Richard the 3rd of York
Nina Hastings said:
My late Husband’s Ancestry is from the Plantagenet. I have a printout of the Family Tree & I had been told that my Son Christopher Hastings-Ison is the real Earl of Huntingdon hence the current sitting Earl was only appointed because there was no male heir at the time. I would like to pursue this hope you can help me with this.
Thank you so much.
Monina Hastings-Ison
Magen David Francoelyn DeWarenne-Plantagenet said:
Dear Madam,
I’m a direct male descendant of Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155). My father’s mother is a Stewart (Stuart), my father’s great grandmother is a McCoy (McCay).
And as rare as red heads are, I have a whole family of them (green and blue eyes), even my in-laws and wife are all red heads!
I have been through the DNA testing wringer I’ve tried to contact scholars, etc.
Queen Elizabeth’s father and I have the same paternal common ancestor (Geoffrey), and still not a news paper story to be heard of.
British Parliament don’t like the french either, even though I’m a Plantagenet.
Richard III wrote the laws of legitimacy, and Parliament finished the rest of them as times progressed. The English Civil War screwed things up even worse for folks like us.
If you are Catholic, you might want to try taking to the Duke of Edinburgh as anything in England requires him to be Protestant/ Church of England.
Plus, now-a-days, you’re going to need a ton of cash. as like the current Earl of Huntingdon.
The world is more money driven these days.
Richard III was not a male heir to the throne, but a law was written many years later that a maternal descendants to the throne is just as equal as are paternal descendants.
So to bring your son to the seat of the Earl not only will you need cold hard facts genealogically, and genetically then you should assemble supporters. If you or your son isn’t a politician, this will be quite difficult, especially in these current times.
We have better chances being the Lords, Dukes, or Earls conquering lands and creating English realms, then we do running the seats.
My 21st great grandfather built Conisborough Castle, he was married to a French Norman descendant (DeWarenne). I’m a 13th generation American. Our families have fought corruption for centuries, and still we did no good.
The ideologies of the Carolingian empire have been history for quite a while, Cromwell did a fine job there.
Seems there’s more power in knowing who you are and to find that out you need to know where you came from. For example:
My y chromosome originated in the North Fertile Crescent 25,500 years ago. Certain caucasian men originated 100,000 years ago, and an African descendant whose y chromosome is 340,000 years old. What gives?
I’m 98% British Isles, 1.6% Iberian. Maternally, my DNA came from Scandinavia, paternally my DNA came from the Middle East, being a descendant of Geoffrey D’Anjou as is King George VI, seems the legends of the Plantagenet kings is true being direct male descendants of King David, and possibly biblical Adam, this would include Sumerian, Egyptian, and even Atlantean descendants of Kings.
Like King George, I’m a direct paternal descendant of the Merovingian, Carolingian, and Angevin dynasties.
My maternal dna has a Bpos bloodtype, mine is Bneg. B bloodtypes originated in the Middle East seems mine may have come from biblical Adam too.
I mention this because my mtDNA has Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA markers as they lived before my paternal DNA came into play.
So now one must rethink the Bible and Torah. If my maternal DNA was here already, where did Adam come from? Are the Sumerian legends true? How old are the Greek legends and their Gods?
Plato and Solon both knew of Atlantis, as did the Athenians.
Funny how Leonidas is rendered as a “Lion” type king, as is King David (as found on my ancient family’s crest -“ The Lion of Judah is our strength.” The Hebrews know King David as the Lion of Judah too, did the Greeks call him “Leonidas?” King David is known for slaying giants.
Was King David an Atlantean Descendant? King Merovech, as legend has it was “a descendant of the Sea Beast.” Another says he says he was a descendant of the Sea God (Poseidon?). An Italian chronicaler by the name of Marcellus reports “dislocated Atlanteans settled the land of Gaul (modern day France and Spain.). Someone came up through the Iberian peninsula and distributed my paternal DNA amongst 1.6% of those folks living today. well over 1500 years ago. My only paternal DNA match and I share a common ancestor who lived 2300 years ago, who might that be? Seems it was Joseph of the coat of many colors (or a Coat of many kingdom’s crests?).
Anyway, so yea there’s more power in knowing who you are (Know Thyself) than anything in the material world. It’s God’s gift to us all to prove God does exist. How does God exist in your life? Atheist? Agnostic (not knowing)? Christian? Muslim? Zoroastrian? Jewish?
Dean Hamer wrote a book about the God Gene. That’s about where I am.
Seems where you find math, you’ll find God working. Though I never needed man to tell me where God is. God loves me no matter the flavor, and proves it in more ways than one, what kind of god wouldn’t? Kings, Queens, Dukes, Earls, Lords, Knights… eh! Just titles. The real stuff is that it seems God does exist, that some stories in the Bible are older than its existence, and that if the Bible is 6000 years old, dontcha think there would be more pages? In grade school our history books have more pages about more recent events, than the bible does for 6000 years of history.
C’mon folks, there’s no reason why Sumerians could not have had cell phones. Took us 100 years of industry to achieve that!
Science should not be looking so much outward for facts as they need to look inward. Through all our uniqueness we are still all equal. Aborigines maintain a 40,000 years oral tradition, without the bible. How old is their genetics?
With all the freedom I have in my personal life, power seems fruitless, when God has given me all the power I could ever want or need.
Do your future descendants a favor and do document your family. When you seek the truth, you’ll know the truth, because the truth will set you free.
I am a Plantagenet, and my grandfathers know it too, they left clues. But the greatest truth is inside us all.
P.S. I find it odd I know of two Hastings. One is a friend and the other is of the Battle of Hastings where in 1066 my great grandfather was second in command of William the Conqueror’s army. and held the 2nd greatest land grants to King William per the Domesday Book.
And funny how King George VI and I have a common paternal ancestor, and yet, Richard III and I are not a paternal match. What’s that say about the English throne? Freedom is always free until some idiot tries to take it away from you.
Nina Hastings said:
Hello & thank you that is very interesting. I’m not really after that my Son Christopher Hastings-Ison will become Earl, I just want him to be acknowledged. Interesting that you mentioned 98% British Isles my Husband was 100% from Isle of Ely Cambridge. I’m just hoping that 1 day someone will be interested to trace what I’m talking about till then take care x
On 22 Oct 2019 11:36 am, “European Royal History” wrote:
Magen David Francoelyn DeWarenne-Plantagenet commented: “Dear Madam, I’m a direct male descendant of Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155). My father’s mother is a Stewart (Stuart), my father’s great grandmother is a McCoy (McCay). And as rare as red heads are, I have a whole family of them (green and blue eye”
Gael Mcgilvray said:
I also love the history of the royalty so thank you for that wonderful information
liamfoley63 said:
You’re welcome!
Martin Driscoll said:
Hi, I have recently recived my family tree from ancestry.Co. UK and it state’s that Henry and Eleanor of Aquitaine are my 24 x grandparents on my grandmothers side and goes back way further too…would never have imagined.
hannahla said:
Hello Martin. Our ancestry matches up. There are literally thousands of us around today. We seem to be a fertile and robust line.
hannahla said:
FYI the female line from King John, youngest son of Henry and Eleanor continues robust. There must be many many of us here in the USA today.
Gary Ellis said:
Hello, I’m eight great grandson of Rowland Ellis of Pennsylvania. He was Plantagenet related to HenryII of England. Brad Pitt the actor is also Plantagenet. Many of us here.
Tracey Anne O´Brien said:
If you go back to over 1000 years most people can trace their ancestors back to royalty and 25% to William the Conquerer who married my direct ancestor Matilda of flanders. People have to remember that the world was a much smaller place with a smaller population than nowadays so the chance of an ancestor marrying into nobility was much higher unless you came from a dirt poor family. Nobles married nobles and poor married poor, The gene pool was a lot more limited especially in the nobility as they tended to marry cousins etc. Mine was easy to trace as from the 16th century everyone was noble and documented unlike if your ancestor was called Joe Bloggs who was the local blacksmith or baker.
Gary Ellis said:
Thanks a lot Royals! I have Tritonopia, a rare type of color blindness inherited from my father and God knows whoever buggered their cousin? Other genetic illnesses run in family also!
Tracey Anne O´Brien said:
I´m a direct descendant (24 generations of William Beachamp The Blind Baron of Beford 1227.1298.but luckily didn´t inherit any strange illnesses(dont know if he was blind from birth or through an accident). I am also a direct descendant of Rollo Ragnvaldsson (37 generations) Who was the first Norse Duke of Normandy from where all the European monarchs are descended. According to my family tree I am from the Capet and Anjou dynesty from Normandy and which later went on to be Platagenants, William the conquerer married my direct ancesto rMatilda of Flanders (current Belgium). I actually have many of the monarchs stretching from Portugal right to Kiev, My DNA gives me 10 ethenticities, among them Baltic, Russian, Hungarian, Italian, English and Irish, Not surpriesed considering most royalty in Britain have little or no English blood as they are all descended from either French, German etc etc. There was a lot of inbreds through marrying cousins, My family became extinct nobility in the mid 1550s due to many being rebels and ending up on the block and having all their estates and manor houses confiscated. I suppose what goes up must come down and its just a question of time. From what I have investigated it looks like the family were at the top for at least 1500 years and then gradually went downhill from the 16th century onwards
Donald Link said:
I went to this site primarily to determine who was the last living Platagenant who could justify being the legitimate pretender to the English throne. I have never recognized the usurpation of Henry Tudor despite his claim based on the distaff Lancastrian side. I had heard that it was a individual residing rather modestly in Australia. If anyone has any authoritative information on this, I would appreciate a post. TY.
anne LaRiviere said:
Does anyone know how founded Plantagenet, Ontario, Canada?
Anne
liamfoley63 said:
Within a week I’ll do a series of posts on alternate succession to the British throne. Keep an eye on the blog!
Bill said:
That Tony Robinson fellow did a whole show on that topic. Some bloke named Hastings who passed in 2012. I understand he had a son. Lord Hastings moved from Britain to Australia as a lad, and became a successful sheep farmer.
UsefulCharts on YouTube also explained the connection, something about Jacobite kings.
The only problem I have with Henry Tudor is that Right of Conquest is only true when a true king is slain. Ya can’t just kill any ol’ person and call yourself a king. Probably should kill a king to take his throne.
A king is only a king by Divine Right. It’s never been up to man to decide who’s king.
Could be a genetic thought. I am the grandson of a Plantagenet and a Stewart…
Though I think there are other pretenders. Lord Hastings was an easier find… There are also other Hastings, just not in the U.K.
Donald Link said:
Thanks for the information. Determination of rightful holders of the crown has always been a bit dicey in England because of family conflicts (to include murder), conquest, going to the distaff side when convenient and, of course, the Anglican-Catholic thing that brought in the Germans. All quite interesting and the machinations of today, though more civilized, give indication that intrigue has not yet been disposed of as a tool to determine (and assist?) the Divine process.
liamfoley63 said:
The thing is throughout English history man has decided who is King. In the Anglo-Saxon period the monarch was elected by the Witten Council. Hereditary succession evolved over time and as the rules developed Parliament began to have a role in establishing who should wear the crown. That doesn’t mean usurpers didn’t sit on the throne, they did, but often Parliament did legitimize their rule.
Tracy Armstrong said:
I’ve recently started researching my family tree and I believe I am descended from John of Gaunt also. Very interesting read, thank you.
Anne nom de plume said:
What about Edward I, Longshanks. Through his daughter, Elizabeth, eventually to the Howard’s, First Duke of Norfolk… Last I checked, I’m still kicking and I have a direct line. I’m a US citizen. My ancestors imagrated due to religious persecution, Roman Catholic.
Eminpee said:
Reblogged this on melonpopzdropz … and commented:
My rich family history is steeped in royalty and spans many countries, France, Belguim, Scotland, England, Ireland, Russia and Denmark as well as early Rome. With great interest I have traced and documented this expansive history back to the year 0006 AD. which is over 2000 years of history.
garlichoney said:
It’s unlikely you can trace your family back beyond the 17th century, and many cannot go back that far. Back to Rome? No. The trail of documentation simply does not exist.
As for genealogy websites, I’ve just found one of the popular ones where someone edited the information on my mother, from her birth date to birth place to death date and place. They even tweaked her name to something else that fit their poor “research.” I was shocked.
I’ve changed my mother’s information back to what had been originally entered, but only because I happened to notice the mistakes, and know how to correct them. I also left messages to the dingdong who’d changed my mother’s information to some stranger’s information. The dingdong even linked to “source records” that showed the other woman’s information.
Do you see how untrustworthy such sites are? One such mistake can lead us down the garden path, to someone else’s garden.
Unless your “documentation” has been gleaned by contacting government and church offices, and getting copies of their records, you do not have documentation, you have someone stranger’s notes, most likely incorrect in many places, meaning you aren’t related to the people you think you are related to.
I am fortunate enough to have had someone start charting my family long ago. Original records were the source material used. No family stories, no whispers, no bragging about lineage used; only original source material was good enough. Despite such care, some dingdong got online half a year ago, and changed out my mother for some stranger with a similar, though not identical, name. Most people are dingdongs; never trust other people’s genealogy “research.”
Eminpee said:
I can very easily trace back to Robert Alington Knt. (1520 – 1552) and Margaret Coningsby (1522 – 1598). We can trace ours back to David 1 King of Scotland. After Robert Alinton it goes Drury, Calthorpe, Stapleton, Stapleton, Stapleton, Stapleton, (Stapleton/FitzAlan), (FitzAlan/ Balliol), (Balliol / Galloway),(Alan Galloway / Margararet Huntingdon, David Huntingdon.
This was all done way before the internet was even in everyones homes. My second cousin who has the same great grandmother as me, paid to have this done years ago.
garlichoney said:
That’s great! Like my family, except no experts were needed. Have you also got copies of all the source documentation (church records, deeds, that sort of thing)?
Professionals are people who take money to perform a service, but there’s no guarantee they have integrity, or know what they’re doing. (I’m sure the person who changed all my mother’s information online considers herself something of an expert at genealogy, but she messed up big time. She mistook one woman’s unusual married name for my mother’s unusual maiden name, yet still managed to take it one step further, and change my mother’s name to something more common. Two stupid mistakes, but this sort of thing happens all the time, hence the need for verification via copies of documents.)
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi Garlichoney. I thought I would give you an update on my Jamaican Great great grandfather Alexander William Francis born in Kinggston in 1837. I have managed to find all his documents in the national archives of Kew Gardens and it turns out he started off in 1859 as an Able bodied seaman and travelled the world in The Royal Navy. I even have the name of some of the ships he served on. He travelled to Australia, Russia, The Baltic , Cypress etc, According to his service papers he had excellent conduct throughout his 20 years of service and went up in rank to ChIief Petty Officer, Third Mate and on his last ship The Penelope was Capitan of the Hold. He was stationed in Harwich and that is where he met my English Great Great Grandmother, She was a widow of about 25 and he was about 40 so there was quite an age difference. Through other documents I found out that his father born in 1799 was a creole slave born in Manchester Parish Jamaica and his mother was captured in Africa and bought to Alabama and later Georgia probably to pick cotton, She was born in 1762 , her name was Bonney which was later changed to Sally Bryan according to the slave list of 1817, She had at least 5 creole kids whose decendants are still living in The Carolinas, Alabama, Georgia etc (got in touch with some DNA matches who confirmed this) . Rebel slaves where normally shipped off to Jamaica so I. guessing that she was a bit of a rebel (good for her!), Her slave owner was a Scottish man called Robert Waugh Esq (many Scots were slave owner too). According to the local newspaper of Harwich when Alexander W Francis was about 48 the Mayor of Harwich challenged the fastest sprinter on HMS Penelope (my gggrandfather) to a race with the fastest sprinter of Harwich who was nearly 6 ft tall and my gggrandfather was only 5 ft 3 and weighed 60 kilos! The local sprinter won by only a yard but considering the age difference my gggrandfather must have been pretty fast. In my DNA I have a bit of Pygmy so that is maybe why he was so small! Its taken me just over 2 years of solid investigation but has been a very interesting journey. Through DNA I also have from various African tribes such as the Mende, PygmyAka, Mandinka and Bantu tribes which means that my ancestors were probably from Sierra Leon, Nigeria, The Congo and North Sudan. All I have to do now is write a book like Alex Halley. Lord knows how he discovered Kunta Kinte without the help of internet. It probably took him 20 years instead of my 2!
Eminpee said:
I have re-blogged your blog. I too have many royal connections in the past. These connections span several lands, France, England, Scotland, Rome.. I have history that spans back to the Picts and Northumbria.
There are many Matilda’s in my tree. I named one of my daughters Matilda and this makes me smile wide when I see so many brave Matilda’s that went before her in our family.
Regards for an excellent blog.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Were English royalty actually English at all?? In my DNA it states that I have Flemish, Irish,Frankish, German, Russian English, Spanish, Portugues, Italian (sicily and Tuscony) South Dutch, Urkranian, Hungarian,Russian, Scandanavia, Celtic, Scottish- well to cut a long story short just about every nationality across Europe, I was a bit suspicious so decided to upload my raw data to 4 other dna sites and they all came back with the same results- a true citizen of Europe! I then got other 4500 matches from all over the world with cousins (distant) who share my DNA and many were from the above mentioned countries with names I am unable to pronounce, This also tied in nicely with my family tree which from the early 1500s and before had royalty and nobility from all these above countries from the De Burghs, Bruces to the Plantagenents and also to my surprise some kings from Kiev. from the 12th century- Through DNA matches of living cousins I also discovered some had surnames such as DArcy. Beaufort. and Bohun which rang a bell as they were also on my family tree. I recently uploaded my raw Dna to My true ancestry and they matched me up with just about every royal house past and present in (even Prussia and Saxony) which kind of make sense when looking at my DNA results. Does this mean that I am descended from royalty? Well taking into consideration that over 40% of people from European descent are related one way or another then I probably am just like the millions of others around the world. I think that if you live in a stately home and have your ancestors paintings , hanging up the staircase walls and you have a Sir or Title before your name then you have nothing to proove. Unfortunatley the millions of plebs like myself just have to keep investigating our DNA and relying on sometimes dodgy information to discover our past, Never take family tree sites as 100% correct unless you can back them up with documents, etc. Unfortunatley in England the census only goes back to the early 1800s and births , deaths, and marriages go back to the early 1500s, We must also take into consideration that royalty did love to sow their royal oats and had many illigitamate children which is why many can match their DNA to someone of royalty but maybe the mother was a maid or someone just passing through and the king took a fancy to them and who would refuse a king? If like myself you are a bit of a history buff then it is an interesting and fun way to try to discover your past and of course in some way bring all these deceased `peolple back to life or at least know that someone somewhere is remembering them centuries later which I think is kind of nice.
Gone but never forgotton! I would not have the audacity to say that I am a descendant of royalty as I just cant be sure but looking at all the evidence I have so far there could be a chance that I am. Im waiting to recieve my DNA kit from Living DNA as they are one of the few who will give you your haplogroup. I had a autosomal test which is from the father and the mother but they don´t give you your haplogroup.. I know that many royal families share H and R1b groups and for some reason unknown to me they matched me up with both of these group and 10% with J. How they did that I have no idea. I should know my definate haplogroup by mid mid September so will post to see if I do indeed match up with any of the so called relations they have matched me with. I need scientific evidence to back up my findings otherwise it is all heresay,
Kalli said:
I also did the DNA testing! Then, started tracing names. It’s crazy how far back you can legit trace a line!
garymellis said:
Rowland Ellis: born 1650 Wales Uk.
Died: 1731 Gwynedd Pa. USA
Rowland Ellis mentioned in book of Plantagenet s
Related first or second degree to HenryII, King Of England. My eighth Great grandfather on father’s side. Male line unbroken. Many Genetic illnesses in the family. I am color blind as was my father. Tritonopia or yellow blue color blindness. Plus horrible temper.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Could be true , my son was diaganosed with ADHD, Asperger and also has anger issues, I also have a few very minor genetic health issues, You cant fight your genes!
Kalli said:
Ah, old post but the Plantagenet line is my line. I have traced them on my fathers side, The Bottomleys. In fact, I have traded that line way further than that. I still very much exist, as do my three kids. Lol
Nigel Tanner said:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=descendant+spelling
Peter D. Lancaster said:
My name is Peter Lancaster. My father and grandfather on the paternal line always told me we were related to King Henry IV of England. Is there a genetic way to prove this?
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi, If you want to know if you are anyway related to the plantagenets (which most Europeans actually are) you could start by doing a DNA test and then seeing if your halplogroup matches up with any of the monarchs. You can then put your raw data on various dna webpages which put you in touch with others who share your DNA, And of course do a reliable family tree.
I discovered by DNA matching that my Irish father really is related to Lord Inchiquin of Ireland and Brian Boru (high king of Ireland) by getting in touch with one of his DNA matches and he didnt even have the same surname but as we were talking he happened to mention that one of his ancestors was an OBrien and from that he told me about all the ancestors related to Lord Inchiqiun. My father had already visited the castle but had no real evidence that he was indeed related but just that DNA match moved him a little bit closer to knowing the truth. DNA mathing can be a great help as it can give you more information about your ancestors as everyone has their little grain of sand to help build your sandcastle.
Happy searching.
Tom Hines said:
I’m a direct descendant, 5 Plantagenet kings were my great grandfathers. Tom Hies
Allyssa Johnston said:
I’m also a direct descendant. Both grandparent’s on my dad’s side have Stafford blood and through them they meet back up at Margaret Pole. If you keep going, eventually I’m a direct descendant of William of Normandy in 4 different ways! Most of the Plantagenet kings were my great grandfathers and also my uncles (at the same time since 3 plantagenet brothers are all at once my great grandfathers!)
Jonathan Rodman said:
Who wrote this please contact me…
liamfoley63 said:
I wrote this article
Jonathan Rodman said:
I’ve been doing genealogy continued from 30 years of my parents research. I discovered we were extremely wealthy hiding in Barbados, further research shows we may have fled englabd being royalty see harewood- archeology dig. I have traced land transfers and It appears the wealth is that of Lancaster via Redmayne or often written Redman. Lands include harewood, leeds, Kent, several islands such as Barbados, block island, Nargasset, and more.
See Dr. John Rodman of Barbados 1600s there Is a will from his father richard dated1620. Tracing lands from wills its apparent Eres of lancaster, house of harewood- Richard Redman of Harewood
This family is also by marriage the royal house of Howard under the name Tripp given by king Henry 3.
Also the pages of this family are hand torn from Barbados church record the 5 pages before and 5 after.
Jonathan Rodman said:
http://cybergata.com/roots/2195.htm
https://www.blockislandtimes.com/article/week-block-island%E2%80%99s-history-%E2%80%94-may-14-1679/32893
https://archive.org/stream/redmansoflevensh00gree/redmansoflevensh00gree_djvu.txt
Shelly Toler Odian said:
I am related genetically to these ancestors through both parents, and many other Royals as well. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn I have more Royal DNA than the current Royals living in Windsor Castle.
INCREDIBLY INTERESTING!
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi, Whats your haplogroup? Mines H3 and I seem to have a lot of DNA matches from all over Germany. Holland, Normandy, Calais, the Loire valley,,Luxembourg and Belgium. My modern DNA coincides with Flemish, and all the above. I had no idea I had this as I always thought I was half English and Irish but I suppose if you go back 1000 years the genepool widens. Looks like I have a lot of nobility from these countries but have no documented proof. All I have is my haplogroup and DNA matches that seem to match up with places where royalty lived plus a few surnames such as Roet from Hanauit, DArcy, Windsor and Bearfort, Does this mean I may have royal connections? Maybe yes or maybe they are just coincidences.
CraftyGoth said:
Perhaps no survivors in the male line but certainly the female. Margaret Plantagenet Pole is my 14th great grandmother.
liamfoley63 said:
There are survivors in the male line…which is why I wrote the article. 🙂
Bill said:
Hey Liam, could you explain how the Plantagenets are related to Joseph of Arimathea?
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
The Duke of Somerset´s DNA test didn´t match up with Richard III but there are at least two plebs living in Australia that do match up with the female line, As alwasy it is a lot easier to know who the mother is but the father could be any Tom, Dick or Harry, Female DNA is carried through the female line unchanged and every mother knows who is their child unlike many men who without a DNA test do not know if they are the real father, Richard III mother could easily have had an affair with someone in court and it happened a lot more than we think, Years ago it was easier to mislead the father as DNA tests didnt exits and it was her word against his. As far as I know at the moment there are no known legitamate male descendants only female. Many queens had affairs and children by those who were not their husbands and many kings had illegitamate children all over the place. Illegitamate children have no claim to the thrown unless they are acknowledged by the King. At the end of the day Royalty are royalty for one reason or another whether it be through winning a battle or having some distant blood line relative that gives you claim to the thrown through someone who died 200 years ago.
Bill said:
Hey Tracey, Richard III is not a male Plantagenet.I believe Somersets and Beauforts were legitimized, which doesn’t pass any DNA, just words. I was tested against Richard III, and oddly got NO answers. I was told “I wasn’t a match to Richard.” More like Richard wasn’t a match to me, and yet, I still wasn’t told wether I was a paternal Plantagenet or not, just that “I needed a viable tree.”
So when that line went dead, I had another discovery. The Plantagenets believed they descended from Joseph of Arimathea. Actually, they descended from Joseph, Vizier and father of Pharaoh, and son of Jacob and Rachel. This is also outlined in Masonic lore, and in line with Jacobite beliefs.
However Joseph’s modern name is Yuya. He was King Tut’s great grand father. Zahi Hawass studied the mummy’s of Tut’s family for Discovery Channel in 2008, he also listed the PATERNAL DNA he found. My SNP’s match Tut’s family. Currently working on my DNA fingerprint to check microsatellite markers (autosomal STR testing).
King Tut, like Rick III, is a Maternal match but to his great grandfather.
Another thing about Tut’s family’s dna findings is that, the paternal SNP listed are predominantly European and American DNA today.
So is it weird Yuya is a father of Europe and America?
Yuya had two children, a son and daughter. Joseph had two sons Manassah and Ephraim. I wonder if Manassah was a girl. The name sounds like Melissa, which seems to be a derivative of Melusine. Back to my research.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
That´svery interesting. I have come to the conclusion that everyone is related in one way or another, especially if you go back far enough, I had no idea I had so many French, Belgium, Dutch and German cousins but acording to my dna matches there seem to be hundreds if not thousands and I had no idea until I did the test, The history of humanity is fascinating and just when you think you know everything something pops up that you had no idea about, Its kind of like a never ending story, the more you discover, the more you want to know so you can basically be all your life discovering new things, The only downside is that you need a lot of free time to investigate and luckily I only work part time so dedicate a lot of my free time to history and now geneoloy which I find amazing.
Your posts are very informative and I always look forward to reading them, Thankyou.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
This post has nothing to do with the Plantaganets but I find it just as interesting, A few months ago I was looking at some of my dna matches and found 3 people with strange sounding names like Flying Otter and Rose Standing Bear and thought nothing of it until I started digging a little deeper and even found that one of my matches had posted a photo of his great greatgrandfather Chief Hushasha (Red legs) Whimple. On .my mother´s paternal side her father was from Kashmir India and from the Burusho tribe in the mountains not far from China. My mother even had a dna match with a Buddist monk on the border between these two countries. From what I have discovered she has DNA from the Lumbee tribe who are native Americans who live on the coast of North Carolina. I also discovered that she has dna from the ancient Americans of Bolivia Mexico and Colombia. This must prove that thousands of years ago indians from the indian continent must have somehow made it to the Americas . Her maternal great grandfather was a descendant of slaves from Sierra Leon and Nigeria with a bit of North Sudan thrown in for good measure. As he was born in 1837 after slavery was abolished in Kingston Jamaica , he was a free man and joined the royal navy in 1859 and did 20 years continuous service finally settling in Kent and marrying my English great great grandmother who happened to be born in Harwich Essex which has lots of connections to the Mayflower (which I also have a lot of ancestors who were descendants of the original Pilgrim fathers who where mainly religious people). My mothers maternal grandmother was of Irish stock but i could only go back to her great great grandmother and came up with a brick wall so cannot investigate anymore, I still havent figured out where the French and German come from but it seems to be on my mother´s maternal side My haplogroup is H3 which is typical in Wales, Northern Spain and Morroco but also quite a few Royal kings and queens from Germany have this group too. I also discovered that my 10th direct ancestor was Capitan Ralph Margery from Walsam Le Willows Suffolk who was one of the right hand men of Oliver Cromwell. My father is Irish but it turns out he has a lot of viking and Italian Dna too In a nutshell it turns out that doing both my mother and father´s DNA as well as my own and my son´s I have discovered that we have just about every enthnticity on the planet execept Aboriginal, Its cost me a small fortune but it has been an amazing discovery and really does prove that we really are one big family who share the same planet. I could write a book about all of this but I wouldn´t know where to start!
garlichoney said:
How are the Plantagenets related to Joseph of Arimathea? That one’s easy: they likely are not, at least not directly, and not close enough to count.
Back in the day when kings and houses were trying to establish themselves as rulers by divine right, and a cut above the unwashed masses, they had their histories embellished. I learned that years ago. (People just don’t change.)
Bill said:
Actually they are related to Joseph. In Egyptian his name is “Yuya.” The many names on Yuya’s sarcophagus were indicative the Egyptians didn’t know how to spell a foreign name.
Yuya, Yusuf (arabic), Joseph.
The documentary “A Light in the West,” (YouTube) is about Joseph of Arimathea and mentions the Plantagenets believing they were descendants.
I have not found any Joseph of Arimathea personally. I did find Yuya, the Joseph of Genesis.
Zahi Hawass did a study for Discovery Channel on tutankhamun’s family. Yuya is Tut’s grandmother’s father. Tut has no descendants.
But Yuya’s DNA test shows not only am I a direct paternal descendant, but so is Europe and America. Yuya is a father of Europe, and what the Plantagenets probably actually meant.
But to suspect such either means the times are wrong, maybe Yuya didn’t live in 1700BC, maybe it was more recent?
Since my and Yuya’s DNA matches, the Bible gives the rest of the paternal lineage, all the way to Adam, who had to have lived 25,000 years ago because my paternal DNA originated in the North Fertile Crescent then.
Sure is a big time gap if ya ask me, between then and now…
garlichoney said:
The Plantagenets could not possibly have known their ancestors more than a couple of centuries before 1000 AD, if that. They made up their histories, to make them seem true rulers by divine right. It was an attempt at legitimacy. This was common back then. And fake news.
We don’t know if Joseph of Arimathea had children, or what happened to them, or even where, exactly, Arimathea was located. Did this man give the Apostles his tomb, then hop on a boat for Glastonbury in 33 AD? Did he take off with the Holy Grail? People make all sorts of fantastic claims.
Documentaries must be taken with a grain of salt, and all of their research checked against documentation. Documentation does not mean family Bibles, or family stories, or rumor, but primary records. The further from primary, the more likely error creeps in.
As I’ve commented above, some woman I’ve never heard of changed my mother’s information on a genealogy site, and on microfiche, and in print. One falsehood after another is now out there, and there’s little I can do to correct it, as it’s a burst feather pillow in the wind. I know the facts, but others are learning the figments of some stranger’s imagination. How much easier was this to do one thousand years ago? Two thousand? And when it made people seem truly special, and chosen by God to rule?
Plantagenets may have fought Crusades in Jerusalem, and made pilgrimages, and even ruled as King of Jerusalem, but they were already established as a family by then. My guess is, being from Normandy, they were Norsemen from the start. Even their early names, such as Fulk and Ermengarde trip lightly off the Scandinavian tongue.
Early rulers lied, just as rulers do today (or try to do today, though it’s getting tougher for them every year). Who knew during World War 2 that Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mum) was…a bastard…and not even a royal one (quite the opposite)? Many today are not aware of that. Or that most of the royal families of Europe are rather closely related, and not really of the countries they rule/ruled over. Much thanks for this goes to King Christian IX of Denmark, who was not Danish (neither was his wife, the Queen of Denmark), for having made great matches for his children, and is called the Father-in-Law of Europe for that reason. Prince Philip is not really Greek, but Danish, except his Danish family are not really Danish, but, I believe, northern German. My guess is they were Scandinavians before that. THAT is the common thread in so much of European royalty today, and I suspect in European royalty of a thousand and more years ago. It would be hard to prove, but far easier to prove than a connection with Joseph of Arimathea, he of the Holy Grail and Glastonbury burial and other medieval fantasies.
Brandy Fullerton said:
Not true about ancestors. They knew who their ancestors were. Queens/Ladies had a very important job and that was producing the children. Blood lines were more important than anything in the universe.
Brandy Fullerton said:
What in the world are you talking about Queen Elizabeth II being a bastard and not of royal descent? Anyone can google her lineage.
Cjennmom said:
Where comes the assertion that the Queen Mum was a bastard? The reports have her parents married in 1881 and she was 9th out of 10 children when born in 1900.
garlichoney said:
It was an open secret that QE1 and her younger brother, David, were born of her father and the family’s French cook, Marguerite. This is apparently where she got the nickname she was not fond of, “Cookie.” It also accounts for her being a super snob.
garlichoney said:
@Brandy Fullerton Those wishing to rule really did embellish their ancestry. And as I stated in my comment, during World War 2, Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) was assumed to be royal, but was not. Not the current Queen Elizabeth, but her mother — the one who was Queen during WW2.
Brandy Fullerton said:
Her mother was Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon whose father was Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne and mother was Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck. Claude. You can look up their ancestry.
garlichoney said:
Her mother, the woman who raised her, was one person. Her mother, the woman who gave birth to her (and to her younger brother, David), was another woman.
There is a reason she was called “Cookie.” It’s the same reason she was over-the-top snobbish: a compensation for her birth.
Cjennmom said:
According to recorded history or of conspiracy theory? They had too many children already for him to be sniffing elsewhere in search of an heir, and it would have been beyond rude for him to bring any results of a dalliance under his own roof for his lawfully wedded wife to raise as her own. Those kids and their mothers were generally pensioned off with strict warnings to never reveal themselves to “the family”.
garlichoney said:
Conspiracy theory: A theory that people are conspiring (working together). Rather than misuse a word, just say, “rumor.” Yes, it was a rumor, and more than that, it was an open secret that the Queen Mum’s biological mother was her family’s French cook.
You don’t really believe men have sex with beautiful young women they are not married to solely to gain more heirs, do you?
You know, you could simply surf the Net yourself. Better still, read books about QE1 and her family.
Brandy Fullerton said:
I just shared with you her biological parents. You can use any search engine and type something like “Queen Ellizabeth II ancestors” and you will see she’s descended from King Alfred the Great, King Henry VII, King Edward IV, the list goes on and on. I do not know what your gripe is with the Queen. Seems you want to devalue and dismiss her. Again, the two people named ARE her biological parents.
tracey obrien said:
My father told me a very strange story about the late Queen mother of Elizabeth II. Until he was about 15 he lived in Enniscorthy Co Wexford Ireland and there was a rumour (or urban legend ) going round that the queen mother had a sister who was a bit mad so to hush everything up they sent her to this town (we all know there were quite a few cases of madness in the royal family going back generations) Some of the towns folk actually claimed to have seen her and said that she was the image of her sister. I don´t know if this story is actually true but who knows what has gone on and hushed up behind royal closed doors. Wouldn´t be the first time they have tried to hush up a scandal.
En lunes, 26 de octubre de 2020 0:36:30 CET, European Royal History escribió: #yiv6490912095 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv6490912095 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv6490912095 a.yiv6490912095primaryactionlink:link, #yiv6490912095 a.yiv6490912095primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv6490912095 a.yiv6490912095primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv6490912095 a.yiv6490912095primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E !important;color:#fff !important;}#yiv6490912095 WordPress.com |
garlichoney commented: “Her mother, the woman who raised her, was one person. Her mother, the woman who gave birth to her (and to her younger brother, David), was another woman.There is a reason she was called “Cookie.” It’s the same reason she was over-the-top snobbish: a com” | |
garlichoney said:
Do you mean the mad sisters, Nerissa & Katherine? They were not the Queen Mum’s sisters, but her brother John’s? daughters. The bad blood (Huntingdon’s Chorea, I think was the disease) came from his wife’s side, the Trefusis family. The girls weren’t mad, only terribly handicapped.
Jonathan Rodman said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/murreyandblue.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/a-plantagenets-genetic-revenge/amp/
Suzanne Leather said:
I am a direct descendant of Joan Fair Maid of Kent through my Fiennes family connection
Should I do a DNA test?
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
A DNA test can open up a whole new world and with DNA matching will help you to discover who your ancestors are but make sure you do one which gives you your haplogroup such as DNA living, as some only do your autosomal which doesnt test your group. I discovered that I m H3 coincided with my family tree which turned out to have a lot of German, Dutch and Belgian nobility and also coincided with my modern enthicities. Doing a test is a bit like doing a jigsaw puzzle that helps you to put all the pieces together as just doing a family tree is normally not enough especially if you dont have access to lots of documents which can also help.
garlichoney said:
@Tracey Girl, you have got to do a blog of your DNA-testing journey. There are so many tests online, and they offer so many different things, with prices not always indicating quality. It’s a DNA-test jungle out there!
Besides, you’ve got points of interest in your line, and you’re digging up personal, touching facts on your ancestors, which is appealing. The whole riches-to-rags story is interesting. The Cambridge plaque is interesting. The confusion of the Jamaican — slave, slave holder, or grunt — is interesting.
So many DNA tests, so little spit!
joe richardson said:
In Holy Blood Holy Grail a European legend is mentioned, one that says that the Plantagenet line is descended from James The Just, the elder step-brother of Jesus. My house Richardson started out with Bedo Ap Richard; I suspect he was the illegitimate son of Richard III. The reason why is because in the mid-late 1400s almost no one travelled more than 20 miles from their birthplace and Bedo suddenly went from Wales to the Channel Islands; this fits with how the king would want to treat an illegitimate offspring: take care of him but get him out of the way. Ap Richard means son of in Welsh; Bedo’s son John moved back to England and settled in the area of West Mill, about 60 Miles SSW of London and changed his name to Richardson. Richard III had his DNA mapped upon discovery of his remains; if his suspected son’s is examined then I can have a link, but I don’t know what to do about these possible connections to James The Just. Anybody got any ideas? Joe Richardson
Bill said:
Hey Joe, yea, about James the Just. He was the alleged twin brother of the christian Jesus, who was killed for his content in his preaching. Pretty much like what I am going to say here.
I did the DNA test thing, and without the interruption of debunkers, learned a lot of history, and yet another way to see the literatures of the ancients. Anyway enough fluff, here’s what I know with certainty.
-The Plantagenets are descendants of Joseph. To claim “Arimathea” have to know what it means.
– If King Richard III is truly a Plantagenet by male lines, then I would have been told I am Plantagenet as well. But because I am not a king or any public figure, it was easier to not give me my answer to save face of an alleged king who was not of divine right. Liars and questionable acts are enough to give anyone away. Even though Richard is Anne’s sibling their fathers didn’t match.
If I have a genetic common grandfather with King George VI, why not Richard?
Next (as if that ain’t enough) Jesus would have been one of Joseph’s many children. You know who else had many children? Kings, and Conquerors. Especially in “Jesus’” time.
So if we flip back to Genesis, to Joseph’s chapter (31?) We learn a very different story of a biblical Joseph. So after Joseph Moses decided to up and take off with the arabs and hebrews. Couldn’t handle another step after 40 years in the desert (apparently they walked), and turned the whole thing over to Joshua who brought everyone into the promised land…
In Coptic Greek I find a semblance of the name Jesus “Ieosus.” Seems our modern bible is translated from Coptic Greek into Latin, where we get the name “Jesus,” as defined in the Spanish tongue.
The real Ieosus would have been the great grandson of Joseph.
Books like DaVinci Code and Holy Blood Holy Grail, I don’t think even they know what holy blood even means. Seems to have to do with Joseph, Jacob, Issac, and Abraham,. These men would be holy blood.
Must have been important for a king to have a biblical connection such as Joseph.
Anyway, so I am a direct male Plantagenet. Have a common paternal ancestor with a British King, but my paternal DNA is also showing as a mirror image while being compared to Tutankhamun’s family as studied by Dr Hawass in 2008, and reported in JAMA in 2010. The Joseph the Plantagenets may be looking for is Yuya. Yuya’s Egyptian name was derived from his arabic name of Yusuf, and Hebrew Yusef, latinized José, in English Joseph.
I failed to mention, about those books I mentioned, that while are very entertaining and thought provoking, are also very misleading. But to say there are descendants of the biblical narrative alive today, we can. We can also mention the lost ten tribes of Israel (Joseph’s father btw).
Sadly, I would’ve liked a genetic link to Bran the Blessed, but don’t seem to think that’ll happen.
In all actuality If you are indeed related to this James the Just, get some DNA testing going and search yer ass off in hopes for a study like my quest is turning up.
Always wondered how Jewish folks got “Yeshua,” out of Jesus. Coptic Greek is the missing link. And Yeshua was buried next to a firey mountain and was forgotten as all warriors are.
If the crucifixion narrative was true, Doncha think Homer would have said something in the Iliad and the Odyssey?Troy was 70 A.D. surely news of crucifying a preacher would have spread by then. Wasn’t till 400 A.D. at the council of Nicea Constantine presiding is where our modern New Testament comes from.
Merovech was also born around this time progenitor of the Merovingian (do nothing) Kings. Seems these may have been Jason’s Argonauts (Argon= Do nothing). Which would discredit the bible and give credit to Homer and other Greek legends. Oddly the Greeks and Enoch gave similar stories about Giants, yet Enoch’s is banned fro the bible and moved to the Apocrypha. The Greeks get tossed in to myths. Funny even the Greeks explained how Egypt got it’s Gods and Goddesses. Hmm, just myths….
I was taught my bible has rules and guides…
It’s not bad to only believe in God without mainstream influence. You have to take religion out of the picture and reapproach with a mind free of such, or you won’t get any answers.
God will always love you no matter how you chose to believe. Truth always prevails if its so one seeks. I was once where you are now. Just hoping to give you a shortcut. Its been a long time studying!!
Best of luck in your search.
I wish you well.
Bill
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi, this is a message especially for Bill and for anyone who is really interested in discovering where their ancient ancesters were from. I discovered a fantastic dna upload page which is free, It is called yourdnaportal and it takes 5 mins to register. It gives you a complete breakdown of your modern and ancient ethnticities and really shows you in percentages and distances where your ancestors are from , I have compared it with other dna pages and results and it is the most comprehensive and complete dna brreakdown i have ever seen, It also gives you an ancient dna genome map and mine gives me ancestors from just about every country on the planet including Austraian aborigine, Chinese,Japanese and even from Iron Age Nazareth and Bethlehem. There is even an oracle for Ashenazi Jew and it gives you your percentage. This is the Holy Grail of dna downloads and even tells you medical traits and inherited diseases plus if you have some alles of Neandertdal or modern humans,I got modern humans but my son got one allee from Neadnterdal which is probably from his father´s side as my mother and father have the modern allee like me. I disocovered that on both sides of my family there is Native American dna, especially from the Lumbee tibes of North Carolina, another tribe from San Fransico and the Mohawks and Cherokees. The latter I discovered through dna matches and was in touch with a 4th to distant cousin who told me the story that one of her ancestors was kidnapped by the Mohawks and ended up marrying one of them and having children and one went on to marry an ancestor in my fathers family. I even have some fantastic photos of the tribe with some of their white family.We also compared family trees and it turns out that one of her surnames is Fitzhugh and she has the same nobility on her tree as me going back to the Nevilles which has helped me confirm my tree by science and not just hearsay . There is nothing like DNA matches to help confirm your family tree, I also recommend another free dna matching site called Genenet which has a lot of French DNA matches which have helped me compare geograpical sites which also coincide with my family tree such such as Caen Normady , Piedmont in the North of Italy, Sardina, Tuscany , Flanders Hanult, Belgim etc etc. Geographical coincidences are also valuable tools to help you confirm your family tree. I am going to write to yourdnaortal to ask if the ancient genome map is a general map or is individual.
Adam warren said:
Hi I believe im a descendant of Hamelin de’Warren 32 generations removed all male line.
Bill said:
Hey cousin! Are ya sure “32” generations? I’m curious. I “can name that tune” in 21 generations. Curious to know where you are US or UK, because there were three paternal Warrens that came to America in the 1600’s, and yet found a “Borlase” Warren who was British military. I believe his father was the “High Sheriff of Notts.”
I’ll tell you, ya won’t get anyone to help you, and if you do call me!! I haven’t been told I’m not Hamelin’s great grandson, but haven’t been told I am either because it is Hamelin DeWarenne.
If you’d like to compare notes sometime, I’d appreciate it.
Jaimie Renee Keilman said:
Have a good day trying to find out the truth I’ve been going nuts. Margaret Clarke Duncan was my grandma and such etc.
Old Hifi said:
I have traced my ancestry and find it very interesting. I am related to the English kings before 1066, the Viking forefathers of William the Conqueror, the Plantagenet’s and even Oliver Cromwell’s father. It is not a male line but it is a line. I don’t know where that leaves me in a claim to the crown but it has to be stronger than those German interlopers that are ruling today. All in great fun to ponder the what if’s even if I don’t have a chance of the proverbial snowball in hell. .
Clinton smith said:
This is false I have a direct line to King Henry 2 n Eleanor of Aquitaine. Recently found lines.Queens University Kingston ont. Canada.Queens genealogy dept.under the names Cepesko,Gaiilard. 11 page report.my grandmother is Cepesko.grandfather is know as Gaylord but only after they left oak island 1609 built Gaylord vill. In Hartford Connecticut. Before that we were Gainward.
Tracey said:
I have Alice Gaylord 1594-1670 on my family tree. She married Richard Treat Esq 1884-1669-. He was born in Pitiminster in Somerset and went to Colonial America, Are theave a any connections? I also haver many royal connections including the nobility of Aquitaine and also have 100s of DNA matches from Normandy and Brittany which could just be one big coincidence as I have no documented proof, I do seem to have a boatload of Mayflower settlers and their descendants-
David Norman said:
Researching my ancestors who came to Virginia in the the mid 17th century I found a record of John (Norman) of York who was the illegitimate son of Richard Plantagenet the 3rd Duke of York. Does anyone have any further information?
704HistoryFan said:
this is not correct
I have a Ingram line tracing to Richard Goldthorpe and Anne Norman
Anne or Jane was Daughter of MP John Norman, maybe an alderman too
he was Brother of a Sir Thomas Norman, husband to Agnes ????
and Son of John Norman and Isabel ??? of New Malton Yorkshire
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I have a DNA match which is quite high in centimorgans and she is a Fitzhugh. I looked at her family tree and it goes back to the Plantaganets. As I have a lot of Dutch, Flemish German,, Belgium and French DNA I . its maybe because one of my Irish ancestors (A Redmond) from Wexford married into the Limburg Stirum dynesty who are one of the oldest families in Europe, According to my family tree I also have Edward III. I´m thinking that maybe I am connected through his wife Philipa of Hanaulit. I do know that many Austrian. French German and Dutch have the haplogroup H3 which I also have but that could just be a coincidence. I also have a Tudor DNA match from Wales, In the end if you are of European descent we all have some royal connections whether they are direct or through cousins.Queen Elizabeth II is also connceted to my OBrien side through her mother the Scottish Bowyes Lyons all the way to Brian Boru. You just have to investigate a lot and find the connection ,
704HistoryFan said:
he (John MP) asked to be buried at all saint’s pavement (church)
there may be a marble slab with “an image of a man” there
as to any heraldry, if John or Thomas or anyone else in the family was granted a coat of arms, I cannot say
I have norman from a Gestican line where Hughe Norman died in Dowton Wiltshire and his Dauhter Agnes married a Gestican
and a possible Joane Norman marrying Thomas Crosland
or William Harrington IV, daughter and Grand Dauhter of Sir Thomas Norman of Nottingham
and my Great Grandmother’s line, which I have yet to confirm who her Grandparents names are
704HistoryFan said:
John Norman — 3
———- of York —- or —- New Malton, Yorkshire —- or —- somewhere in Yorkshire
Isabel — 3
John Norman, Sheriff of York — 2
———- ???? – 1497
———- moved from York to New Malton
Agnes (Forrest / Doame / Toddington ??) — 2
John Norman, MP, Alderman — Great Grandfather
———- 1483 / 1487 – 1525
Anne Birley / Catherine / Jane — Great Grandmother
Richard Goldthorpe — Grandfather
Anne / Jane Norman — Grandmother
Sir Hughe Ingram — Father
Anne Goldthorpe — Mother
Lady Margaret Ingram
melinda l winsett said:
My family line is connected through Margaret pole, daughter of George plantagenet, on my mother’s side.
melinda l winsett said:
I found alot of family stories in my genealogy books.
Jodie Baker said:
My husband is a direct grandchild of king henry iii. His great great greattttttttt grandmother was Elizabeth trafford
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
I have discovered that if you go back far enough just about every person with European DNA is related to European royalty one way or anothher. If anyone has done a dna test and receives DNA mateches from all over the world if you have ancestors with surnames such as Fitz (WHATEVER) Bohun , Beaufort , De Burgh or Dárcy to name but a few you probably have royal relatives. I have the FitzHughes and Fitz Randolphs and some of the above and they all lead back to Edward iii . Its more difficult to know if you are a direct descendant but millions are cousins at the least.Of course if you have a title in front of your name and live in a statley home then it is of course without a doubt. If you live at number 1 High street and your father was a plumber then its more difficult to investigate.
sspencer1949 said:
Thank you. Especially since my Ancestors include John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford (de Roet).
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Almost every living person of European origin can trace their family back to William the conquerer and beyond. So having a common ancestor who was royal is is not the exception but the rule, 1000 years ago Europe was small in population compared to now and considering that if you go back far enough you end up with millions of ancestors it doesnt take very long to start getting names on your family tree such as Neville, Beaufort, Roet, Tudor , Bohun etc etc, The only people who can without a doubt say that they are a direct descendant are the ones who still live in a stately homes , have a title before their name and have all the portraits of their ancestors hanging from the staricase walls. I discovered on my father´s side that the OBriens are related to the present British royal family through the Queen´s mother who in turn was related to The Duke of Wellington. On my mother´s side it goes back to the royal houses of Germany and Austria. My halpogroup is H and my father´s is R1, Investigating geographically where you r ancecstors lived 1000 years ago can also give you valuable information. I had no idea that I had Flemish, Dutch German and Austrain DNA until I did a few DNA tests., We all have common ancestors somewhere down the line and some are related to royalty or even directly.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Bill, your latest comment where you mention the knight Templars got me thinking, On my family tree I have William Sinclair First lord of Roslin 1028-1078. As I am a bit of an unbeliever I thought I would investigate further. Looking at my fathers DNA it turns out he has Orcadian and Sheltland and of course Scottish which does coincide with the Sinclairs. I then looked at all my DNA coincidences that shared the surname Sinclair. Many are still living in Caithness and some even in Orkney, I checked on their family trees and lo and behold they go back directly to William Sinclair and even Normandy (I have lots of ancestors from Normandy too), There are also many from Norway and the Faroe Islands which geographically does all fit in. If i knew the haplogroup of the Sinclairs that would help, My so called claims to fame basically stem from family trees and DNA coincidences with some haplogroups plus the usual birth certificates which unfortunatly only go back to 1538 and the census is even more limited as it only goes back to 1841. I have also discovered that everyone on the planet is related one way or another so Adam and Eve as we call them probably did exist although I havent gone back that far as mine stops in the Neolithic era somewhere in Bavaria. (based on excavations that share my haplogroup.)
Bill said:
Well now, if that isn’t a ray of sunshine! Yes, at Familytreedna I was an “affinity family” on the Sinclair/ St. Claire dna study project. “Wassup cuzz!” lol.
My father’s father is the Plantagenet blood. My father’s mother is the Stuart blood, as in King James Stuart. Gramps mom was a McCoy. (Argyll Migration).
My mom’s mom is welsh, and a cousin of Queen Vic. Mom’s dad is a MacElliott, and O’Boland.
To be a descendant of Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V means you are also Carolingian, and Merovingian – a Do Nothing king. To be a Do Nothing king you had to be a descendant of the the Do Nothing Sailors, aka: The Argonauts. To be an Argonaut you were a son of Priam, and Trojan.
To be caught up in Greek (especially how the greek gods became Egyptian gods and goddesses), lore you’ll learn many other languages have their own take of the same story. To be a descendant of European kings and nobles, even some American presidents, you are a descendant of Joseph, son of Jacob and Rachel (Gen Ch 31, Quran Surah Yusuf). If you are Norman, you have Danish Viking dna (Rollo.) and of the tribe of Dan- Jacob and Leahs son.
This is what is meant by “Jacobite kings.” The sons of Jacob.
One event that occurred between the lives of Adam and Joseph, was a great flood, seems was the same flood that erased Atlantis.
Haplogroups dot the ancient Atlantean landscape. Some of us are descendants of Atlantis, ask the Basques, of which I am also.
It’s this knowledge kept precious in Masonic lore. My brother’s lives are rich and rewarding. Doesn’t seem deceit plays any kind of role. Our grandfathers giving their lives for preservation of such knowledge, only a noble heart can see their efforts.
The rest of our family knowledge is esoteric. Seek the truth, you’ll know the truth, because the truth will set you free…
As above, so below. As within, so with out
noblesirknight said:
Hey Bill, “It’s this knowledge kept precious in Masonic lore” and even though I’m a 32` A&ASR Mason, KT in the York Rite & Noble as well… your post has been the first that I’ve even heard of such knowledge! I am of the Plantagenet Bloodline because Edward I king of England is my 26th great grandfather and this is really new knowledge to me. It has only been recently that the subject of genealogy became interesting to me, however, after looking at it…WOW!
Gary Koepfer said:
There are many of us descended from Constance Plantagenet. Her illegitimate daughter was our gateway ancestor.
Laurel Schunk said:
My husband, John Frederick Schunk II, is a descendant of the Plantagenet line—an illegitimate line. He couldn’t find the name of his actual forebear. This result is from research done on John Loomis, a prominent New England.
Cathy work said:
I’m the descendent of King Edward the fourth and Richard the third through their sister Elizabeth who married by direct descendent John De La Pole 2. So where is there illegitimate line in King Edward III?
Bobby Angell said:
King Henry the 11 is my 18th great grandfather.
michael foster said:
My 18th great grandmother is Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford- daughter of Thomas de Beauchamp, K.G. & 11th Earl of Warwick & descendant of Geoffery Plantagenet by Katherine, daughter of Roger Mortimer 1st Earl of March and descendant of king John. I am of the Plantagenet bloodline… called “Kniges Blut” in German or Blood Royal, however, I don’t know how to do genealogy and know that there could likely be a great deal of work that needs to be done to prove this relationship as a Plantagenet.
My grandmother (late) that I’ve never had the genealogy done for was a Stepp as a maiden. This is where the relationship to the royals comes from.
Bill said:
Mr. Foster you have every reason to get a dna test for genealogy purposes. May i recommend FamilyTreeDNA? And spend the money.
“Foster” is one of many names in my family. Stewart (Stuart), McCoy (McCay), Warren (DeWarenne), Elder, (Mac) Elliott, O’Boland…
Far as I can tell, paternal only from my dad to his dad, etc to the 22ggf is Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155). You will find a lot of our ancestors amongst the LDS church, and Freemasonry. I did…
My father is the only man in my paternal lineage who never went to war in over a 1000 years, kinda cool to know.
My paternal dna is 49% Danish Viking (Rollo duke of Normandy) and 49% Merovingian noble and match <1.% of the Basque population. If you ar Rh neg you are rare as hens teeth, like me.
noblesirknight said:
Bill I’ve had my dNA done on Ancrstry.com and although I don’t know how to do genealogy well (Wikitree helps a lot) I do have Wales listed as where my ancestors hailed from,
noblesirknight said:
Bill I’ve had my dNA done on Ancrstry.com and although I don’t know how to do genealogy well (Wikitree helps a lot) I do have Wales listed as where my ancestors hailed from, I am a member of Clan Stewart USA,
noblesirknight said:
My other grandmother is related to Col. Augustine Warner, Sr. And thus Gen. George Washington.
Kathleen Boston McCune said:
She is my 17th GGmother. Would our DNA show same? Mine is available for comparison.
noblesirknight said:
Kathleen, interesting? Who is your 17th GGmother, Clara? I have had mine tested as well. I bet it would likely show the same?
jamesrichardvi wig said:
Most of this garbage-no offense, as plantagenet, or york, is a name give, or Edward IV, earl of marsh, duke of normandy-family title, count of anjou-surrey-more, was the last documented king, of untied kingdom, with the name, wiggin, his children richard duke of york, was named- george second name, after duke of clarence, but first name is jamesrichard, called by some richard,3 and by others as richard fourth, or duke richard, or boy lost in tower, no dna test, why.
Bill said:
My paternal DNA got tested and compared to Richard III, and got no answer; neither a “yay,” or “nay.” Except for the “we need a viable tree.” What does that even mean?
I claim Hamelin (D’Anjou) DeWarenne, IIII or V Earl of Surrey (1124-1202(?)). Was told “DNA says you are who you claim – Hamelin’s 21st great grandson.
Also found a paternal DNA study on a 18th dynasty mummy, conducted by Dr Zahi Hawass for Discovery Channel, published in JAMA 2-17-2010. I compared my DNA certificate to the study and match all of the published markers by Dr Hawass.
I am caucasian and have 3 of the 5 genes for Sickle Cell trait? I match an Ethiopian Jewish man though. Might be Menelek’s ( Kebre Negast) great (+) grandson?
My ancient DNA reveals genes from Montana man, and Kennewick man too, yet somehow my paternal DNA originated in the north fertile crescent 25,000 years ago, and a paternal only great grandson of the Sea God (Poseidon? Manannan Mac Llyr? Phoenicians? Sythians?), I match <1% of the Basque and Iberian populations too. I’m also 49% Danish Viking (Rollo?) and 49% Merovingian Noble paternal DNA
What the … does any of that mean? Seems I tumbled down a rabbit hole because I don’t like pills. If that’s a rabbit hole and I’m a human, how is it I’m even tumbling? Seems more like “I’m stuck.”
Anyone got a bone to spare?
Though, the problem is that Richard III paternal Haplo group is G-P287, I’m R-M269 and I match King George VI and became a person’s “Plantagenet” connection for a time.
My paternal grandmother – is scottish – and a direct descendant of King James…
My maternal DNA is also of Queen Victoria and Czar Nicholas II, and matches <1% of the Inuit population (Atilla the Hun?)
David Burke said:
Living member of the houses direct line in Tampa Florida. Last name is changed by lineage curse of female births. Such continues today with the females carrying on our families blood line. 1499 was our last extinct male.
noblesirknight said:
Edward I Plantagenet king of England is my 26th great grandfather and it appears that I am the only person aware of this fact? Certainly, I descend from Plantagenet Blood or Kniges Blut (Royal Blood) in German. Genealogy is a wonderful tool & hobby even though this fact has only been made available to me recently and It is “thought” that perhaps Edward III was the “last Plantagenet” I’d still like to join the House of Plantagenet- for historical reasons and perhaps more advantages could possibly reveal themselves later? Who knows and perhaps We shall see?
Maggie said:
So interesting impressive knowledge, well written.
Daniel said:
The king of kings Daniel Scott Bryan an Victor of hell
Derk Sherren said:
Hi. I have done much research and King Henry III Plantagenet is my 20th great-grandfather. I follow through Alice James (6th ggm) who married a Robert Sherring/Sherren. I also follow through the Beaumont, Botreaux, Hungerford and White lines. I must say I did not know about the illegitimate line of Plantagenet. This is most interesting. I have a family tree in Ancestry- Sherring/Sherren and Royals Family Roots. I am still working on the Plantagenet line.
Michael Foster said:
I have an interesting situation. I am of the Plantagenet Kniges Blut (Royal Blood in German) however, it is actually Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford the Lady of the English that I believe I am related to. My grandmother (late) was Madge Lee Stepp as a maiden and the Stepp sir name is where I believe Maud is related to me. So, I am related to many of the kings of England through being related to their mother (I believe?)!
Also, I don’t know how to do genealogy but the computer and WikiTree especially helps and said that Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford is my 18th great grandmother- however, when I tried to join the Mayflower Society I can’t seem to locate an ancestor that was aboard the Mayflower and wonder if there was 1?
noblesirknight said:
In addition, king of England Edward I (Longshanks) Plantagenet is my great grandfather. It’s believed that Edward I is my 26th great grandfather but will have to double check on that number… he may be my 25th gg?
Mary P Thompson said:
Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset is my 15th great-grandfather through his daughter Lady Anne Beaufort who married John Savile and then on down into the male Bradley line to my mother. My line is legitimate, but obviously not male.
Golden king of kings said:
Daniel and David Bryan bloodline the ancient ones
Mary P Thompson said:
Why wasn’t Anne Holland (later Astley, later Howard), Duchess of Exeter, made Queen of England instead of her two younger Plantagenet brothers in 1461? Mary Tudor was made Queen right after Henry VIII died and then Elizabeth I was. I’ve always wondered.
marmalade said:
I`ve just discovered your blog and it is fascinating to read. I recall the tv documentary where the narrator – whose name I forget and who has appeared in a number of tv programs – asserted that the present Queen of England and her family have no real claim to the throne due to the various issues surrounding the Plantagenet Edward the 4th and Richard the 3rd.
Of course too Henry the 7th was a usurper whose claim to the throne was rather weak and the Tudors `right to rule` was pretence according to the succession law made some years before Henry Tudor was even in the picture. The illegitimate line he came from on one side was barred from ascending to the throne by a legal act of parliament.
However, Queen Elizabeth the 2nd has ancestry on all sides with royal bloodlines and connections including both the so called Lancastrian and Yorkist sides.
She even can claim descent from the High King of Ireland Brian Boru whose clan came to be known as the O`Briens and also has ancestors who were the old Saxon kings of England before the Norman invasion of 1066 that eventually resulted in the Plantagenet line.
And speaking of the Irish, there are interesting cases such as that of the O`Carroll family – one of their branches can claim descent from Edward the 1st through the Butler family. Tiege O`Carroll married Joan Butler whose maternal ancestry included Elizabeth Plantagenet. She married into the De Bohun family and her father was King Edward the 1st while her mother was Queen Leonor of Castile.
liamfoley63 said:
Glad you like my blog. The Queen of the United Kingdom owes her claim to the throne as the Heir General of Electress Sophia of Hanover as laid down in the Act of Settlement of 1701. Hereditary descent is not the sole claim to the throne. The claim to the throne is now controlled by Parliamentary Laws.
Tracey Anne OBrien said:
Hi, Im an OBrien and years ago my father said that he had sucessfully traced his ancestors back to Brian Boru. By doing a DNA test I also had a DNA match with someone who is closley connected to Lord Inchiquin who is a direct descendant of the High King of Ireland.. My family lived in Country clare (the seat of the OBrien clan) for many years before moving all over Ireland finally settling in Co Wexford. He also told me about the Royal Enlgish connection (I think it is through the Queen Mother) I also have the Fitzgeralds who were of Norman/Anglo origins and go back to the Earls of Kildare.If everyone traces their ancestors back enough you can normally find a royal connection even if the majority are not direct ancestors but through cousins etc
I even found through Dna matches that one of my ancestors (a Redmond from Co Wexford) had married into. the Dutch Limburg dynesty and another DNA match who is a direct descendant of the Dutch royal family from the late 1700s onwards. Funnily enough I also have a lot of modern DNA from Holland and Germany as well as Austria and Russia – At the end of the day almost everyone with European connection can normally find someone of Royalty down the line-
Joshua F said:
William The Conquerer is my 27th great grandfather continuing through Henry III. The line became Vernon and built Haddon Hall – my grandmother still had pieces of the original China until 2005 or so. Their decedents came to America between 1610 and 1630 and are largely living here today.
noblesirknight said:
This is awesome information and similar to Joshua F, “Now what I am about to say hopefully will not come across as arrogance but I do find myself surprised when I learn something new. I am not saying I know everything it is just that when I discover something,” however, I am actually new to the study of genealogy (and still don’t know how to do it well?) I’ve discovered that I am Thomas Jefferson’s 3rd cousin! Now, that’s pretty close I believe? but not only that,I am George Washington’s 12th cousin.
and Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford is my great grandmother (18th I believe?)
Genealogy is such an exciting process and 1 that needs to more studied by me.
Lenesse West said:
My name is Lenesse West. My family is on ancestry as a direct link to be their ancestors. The records are locked to go any further than we have gone and they have no intentions of opening those records. We are a true line of Bourbon name.
John Guest said:
Are you only concerned with the male line?
The Plantagenet bloodline continues to the maximum extent, along a mixed make-female line?
liamfoley63 said:
Yes the male line only. There are many many descendants through the female line.
Noble Sir Knight said:
I am of the Plantagenet male line, although “unrecognized” as being such. My grandmother was related to Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford and thus, Edward I, Edward II, Edward III (and others that I don’t know b/c I’m a beginner at genealogy).)
liamfoley63 said:
If your descent from the Plantagenet Dynasty is through your grandmother then that is through the female line.
Sara McCoy said:
My husband just tracked his ancestry on his mother’s side to William the Conqueror and even further.
Bill Warren said:
Hi Sara,
Was wondering if we are cousins. My dad’s grandmother was a McCoy. If your husband wants to do a DNA test go to FamilyTreeDNA, you too!!
We descend from Daniel McCoy and Lydia Schafer.
I’m a male Plantagenet through the DeWarenne line. Hamelin was my great grandfather.
Richard III was not a king by paternal right, and removed the “Divine right of Kings.” law in 1555. Richard’s DNA proved such! DNA don’t lie apparently. Richard should be the same haplo group as George VI and is not! Hamelin’s dad (Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V 1113-1155) is our common ancestor.
jean Wild said:
Hello cousins, I am also descended from Hamelin. He is my way back great grandfather.
James Robert Brigy said:
I’m related to the Plantagenet King Edward the 3ed is my 17th great grandfather 3 time’s over and I am living in Florida and my name is James Robert Briggs.
Randall Cris Broom said:
Hello my name is Mr. Randall Broom…. And have recently seen a Jacob Broom that signed the Constitution of the U. S. ! And am wondering if I’m a decendant of All these people? I’ve been told there is shield in an old church back east with the emblem of a sprig of a broom plant on it ! Does anyone know anything about these things?
caroleinwv said:
In mind, just as ” legitimate ” as Henry VII. The John of Gaunt lineage provides some interesting thought.
Noreen said:
We have had our family history traced twice. With the same results. We were of royal blood but had to leave England in the dead of the night on a ship bound for Zealand. We buried a lot of treasure and took our servants with us. They lived in the hills between Holland and Germany for approximately 100 yrs. for fear of reprisals from Queen Elizabeth who wanted all my ancestors killed. As these facts fit with history I believe we were of the Plantagenet line.
Adam Warren said:
Does it count if you’re 32nd grade grandfather changed his last name to Hamlin Plantagenet to DeWarenne when he got married?
Bill Warren said:
Paternally no. Hamelin’s dad will always be your GGF no matter the name change. Hamelin had to accept his wife’s family name because of Longshanks. Longshanks would not accept Hamelin as his daughter’s son from Count Geoffrey D’Anjou V (1113-1155). Hamelin’s mother is Adelaide Beauclerc. Folks who claim her as their GGM (+) show up as my DNA cousins. Have you learned yet that Hamelin’s eyesight was restored by Thomas Becket? Hamelin also convinced his cousin King John to sign the Magna Charta. William DeWarenne 3rd Earl of Surrey’s seal was one of the first baron’s seals on the Magna Charta, Hamelin’s father in law.
A strange thought – did you know George Washington was Isabelle DeWarenne’s 33rd great grandson, yet lived 200-ish years ago. I’m a 22nd great grandson of Hamelin, and yet you’re a 32nd GGS in modern times. What the heck?!
Good luck in your search. If you would like to do DNA I’m at FTDNA. I’ve already been told I’m “not a match to Richard III,” yet need a viable “tree” to determine my Plantagenet bloodline despite a genetic genealogists DNA findings to support my claims. I’ve also been contacted by another archaeologist who paid for my test upgrade from BigY500 to BigY700, and then disappeared, ghosted, whatever. There is a paternal DNA study in progress of the Warren family on the FTDNA website.
I have two matches in the world, one is in Australia and our common ancestor lived 2300 years ago. The other is in Ireland and he’s been contacted by the latest researcher I’ve encountered.
Science is catching up!!!!
If ya make it to FTDNA look me up! You’ll prolly match right next to me. Oddly my name is William.
jonnykat said:
Any other Angevin’s out there in the states or beyond? I have a book of ancestry passed on with the name and descendants out here. It’s a short book:-) I know of the Plantagenet Kings, the later 100 year war, & of course vs. England, Germany conflicts in recent past. I’ve never been overly curious about genealogy, family, empires until now. Being American i thought all colors bleed into one.
Christopher Currie said:
I am related to a Jean Charles Plante dit Plantagenet ….
Nina Berry said:
When the body of Richard III (Plantagenet King) of England was disinterred from a car park some years ago in Leicester DNA testing from his remains was initially attempted on the male side without success, but was successfully later achieved on the female side, therefore indicating he was not a Plantagenet at all.
liamfoley63 said:
That’s not accurate. Richard III was a Plantagenet it was Henry Somerset, 5th Duke of Beaufort may not have been a Plantagenet. https://le.ac.uk/richard-iii/identification/genetics/dna-results
Kelly Collins said:
My name is Kelly E Collins. I have a great grandmother that goes back to South Georgia. Her name was Ann Summerall, she married Freeman Sellers. I have followed her lineage back 12 generations, she is related to the plantagenet line. I seen where it took me to King HenryIV, King EdwardIII, RobertII. If you are interested travel that line if you so chose.
noblesirknight said:
Actually I can trace my line to Maud (Beauchamp) de Clifford & she was of Plantagenet royal blood on both sides. My grandmother (late) Madge Lee (Stepp) Dillingham was cousins with The Lady of the English. So there is more than 1 of us unknown Plantagenet defendants alive today. It appears that no one wants anything to do with this piece of uncomfortable information though.
noblesirknight said:
Oh, wikitree says that king Edward I Longshanks Plantagenet is my 26 th (I believe ?) great grandfather. I don’t know how to do genealogy.
yonitafairfax said:
Do keep me on line yonita.ward@gmail.com
It’s a long time since l was in touch! with any genealogy! And it was for many years my favourite subject.
William the Conqueror was my mother’s 30 grandfather. His mother was my mother’s family line even if he was born illegitimate! She was Eleanor de la Gabbette. This was all on a wiki tree at one stage.
Noble Sir Knight said:
Hey YONITAFAIRFX,
It’s awesome to be of Plantagenet Blood isn’t it Now I’m ready to receive a “good portion” of our family’s wealth and receive the financial wealth that I’ve yet to ever know in this life!
Mary P Thompson said:
Does anyone else like me think that Henry, Earl of Hunsdon and my ancestor Catherine, Lady Carey were really actually Henry VIII’s (un-legitimated) children with Mary Boleyn?
Bill W said:
Hehe, I still haven’t been confirmed I’m a male line Plantagenet. King George VI and I match. I have been told “it seems I am who I say I am.”
Enjoy your privacy, something they don’t have. 😊
noblesirknight said:
That seems like great advice although I wouldn’t complain too (much) to have “their” abundance of money. 😉
Bill W said:
Hehe, yea, I could use a few extra bucks/ quid myself. But wouldn’t want all that money they have. Has its own unique set of problems I am not equipped for. Good way to kill off a poor man quick, make him rich overnight. 😊
Where they are rich, I am not.
Where I am rich, they are not.
Peace is priceless.
Imagine being a mucky-muck and rippin’ a big ol’ fart in a crowded shopping mall? BBC lets us all know, just in case we missed it!
When its a no body, folks check their shoes for dog muck. 🤣🤣😊
Noble Sir Knight said:
Hey Bill, I agree 100%… who on Earth would need or even want the money of those “world’s richest families?” The Roths (Red Shield & others)? Just think about all the hassle that comes with hiring and having an army of accountants? That type money is not for me either.
Perhaps enough money/curency to have a place of my own plus enough for some fun “toys” to play with would actually be fine with me- plus the greatest wealth of all… good health- of course.
Yes, “they” have tons of perceived power in the physical and political worlds, however, having Treasure in the Spiritual world seems to be the greatest wealth of all.
Absolutely!… We agree, Peace is priceless!
Flavio Rivera-Montealegre said:
My name is FLAVIO RIVERA MONTEALEGRE, descendant from Henry II Plantagenet and Eleanor of Aquitaine, directly from Spain King, Ferdinand III “the Saint” and Elizabeth von Hohenstaufen. My family MONTEALEGRE in Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Guatemala are descendants of the PLANTAGENET DINASTY. Our ancestors come from the european monarchies, like CAPETO in France (Carlomagno), SAVOYA (Italy), Hohenstaufen (Germany), RURIK (Kiev) by Anne of Kiev, Princess of Kiev, daughter of Yaroslav of Kiev, and Poland and Hungry monarchies, and the kings of the vikings and merovingian dinasties. I write eleven books of my roots, my genealogy from England, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Poland, Hungry, and Roman Emperors, the Merovingian Dinasty. My relashionship with Elizabeth II of Great Britany, the Mexican Emperor Maximiliam and Charllotte of Mexico. See this link in Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Genealog%C3%ADa-Familia-Montealegre-Antepasados-Descendientes-ebook/dp/B0792X61YR/ref=sr_1_11?qid=1687337599&refinements=p_27%3AFlavio+Rivera-Montealegre&s=books&sr=1-11
Flavio Rivera-Montealegre said:
My book, with the relationnship, ancestors in common, the MONTEALEGRE FAMILY in Central America, with the Queen ELIZABETH II OF ENGLAND. The VERMANDOIS is our ancestors in common, and the EMPEROR CHARLEMAGN.https://www.amazon.com/Genealogia-Reina-Isabel-Inglaterra-Montealegre/dp/B0BLG2QBKF/ref=sr_1_20?qid=1687340426&refinements=p_27%3AFlavio+Rivera-Montealegre&s=books&sr=1-20
Bill W (for real!) said:
Then our DNA should match. My DNA distribution map shows matches in central and S.America.
I match <.5% of the Iberian and Basque populations. (I always did get confused. So I mean “less than”).
Hard to be confirmed a descendant of Charlemagne. R-M269 is the ball park haplo-group.
See if we match at FTDNA.
I been told I “speak Spanish without an accent.” I didn’t know that was even a thing. Seems Spanish could be in this ol’ French Norman hebrew. 😊
John F Dwen said:
Hi, the two princess in the tower of london, are my 14th great grand uncles.
Laura scruggs said:
My ancestry.com account shows a Lott of plantagenant histiry to my family.. who can I contact to do a genetic tree?
Noble Sir Knight said:
My ancestry.com account actually doesn’t show much Plantagenet history (that I can tell), however, that’s mainly because I don’t know how to do genealogy. I DO know that my grandmother (my mom’s mother) was 1st cousins with Maud (Beauchamp) d’ Clifford (something like 25 X removed, I don’t have the paperwork at hand), however, Plantagenet Kniges Blut (Royal Blood) and belonging to & in the Bloodline rules and is awesome! (only in my humble opinion).
Bill said:
Heya, if you do a DNA test over at FamilyTree DNA you might match me. King George VI snd I have a grand dad in common. My paternal line is through Hamelin DeWarenne 5th Earl of Surrey. The powers that be won’t tell me I am a Plantagenet – but I know I am, I have other confirmations. Every so called genealogist ghosts me.
Read “The King’s Son 2nd Ed.” I’m the author’s Plantagenet connection. Then the author dipped out for the 3rd ed!!
So here I am. Ya match me you’re a Plantagenet. I also match King Tut! As did King George!
Jean said:
My paternal line goes through Hamelin also
noblesirknight said:
Nice to meet you cousin.
noblesirknight said:
Plus, The “Lady of the English” Maud (Beauchamp) d’Clifford was also Plantagenet Royal Blood,of course.
Lars Barnhart said:
Strand crest was traced to house of Normans Germanic tribe the strands were house of Normans first and queen Elizabeth 2 is illegitimate royalty German nazi puppet government monarchy and parliament the house of Hannover murdered queen victorias 1 cousin in laloose canyon New Mexico in 1895 queen victorias grandson was Adolph hitler her real father was John r conroy William 4ths daughter Elizabeth Augustine ostic 4th married prince Lars Emil strand and protected the crown at all costs in New Mexico in the 1900s
liamfoley63 said:
This is all BS but it’s funny.
Lars Barnhart said:
Strand crest was traced to house of Normans Germanic tribe the strands were house of Normansi first and queen Elizabeth 2 is illegitimate royalty German nazi puppet government monarchy and parliament the house of Hannover murdered queen victorias 1 cousin in laloose canyon New Mexico in 1895 queen victorias grandson was Adolph hitler her real father was John r conroy William 4ths daughter Elizabeth Augustine ostic 4th married prince Lars Emil strand and protected the crown at all costs in New Mexico in the 1900s
Marian Wilson said:
I have discovered in the last couple of days that I am a direct and legitimate descendant of Henry II, Louis VII and Eleanor of Aquitaine. I am so happy and proud to have Plantagenet blood running through my veins.
Christina said:
Richard of England (Plantagenet), Earl of Cornwall, King of the Romans, Count of Poitou is my 20th great grandfather.
Arthur Summers said:
I just found out that I am a “direct decendent” 🤷
liamfoley63 said:
Through males only?
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
My Y-DNA haplogroup is R1b-L2. And includes all of the Somerset Y haplogroups I2, G2, and R1b among others.
Hugues Capet, roi des Francs is your 30th great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father → Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk
his father → John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk
his father → Sir Robert Howard of Stoke Neyland
his father → Sir John Howard, Kt., MP, Sheriff of Essex
his father → Sir Robert Howard, Knight, of Wiggenhall – East Winch and Tendring
his father → Sir John Howard, II, Admiral of the Navy
his father → Lady Joan de Cornwall
his mother → Richard de Cornwall, of Thunnock
her father → Richard, 1st Earl of Cornwall
his father → Isabella of Angoulême
his mother → Alice de Courtenay, comtesse d’Angoulême
her mother → Pierre, de France, Seigneur de Courtenay
her father → Louis VI the Fat, king of France
his father → Philip I, king of France
his father → Henry I, king of France
his father → Robert II Capet, “the Pious” king of the Franks
his father → Hugues Capet, roi des Francs
his father
Hugues Capet, roi des Francs is your 24th great grandmother’s husband’s third great grandfather.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Norris, III
his father → John Baptist Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Colonel Thomas M Hinson, Sr
her father → William Hinson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father → Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk
his father → John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk
his father → Sir Robert Howard of Stoke Neyland
his father → Sir John Howard, Kt., MP, Sheriff of Essex
his father → Sir Robert Howard, Knight, of Wiggenhall – East Winch and Tendring
his father → Sir John Howard, II, Admiral of the Navy
his father → Lady Joan de Cornwall
his mother → Richard de Cornwall, of Thunnock
her father → Richard, 1st Earl of Cornwall
his father → John I “Lackland”, King of England
his father → Eleanor d’Aquitaine, Queen Consort of England
his mother → Louis VII the Young, king of France
her husband → Louis VI the Fat, king of France
his father → Philip I, king of France
his father → Henry I, king of France
his father → Robert II Capet, “the Pious” king of the Franks
his father → Hugues Capet, roi des Francs
his father
https://www.geni.com/people/Hugues-Capet-roi-des-Francs/5411162384740027078
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
The Norris line includes Chuck Norris, James Best, and the Everly Bros.
Don Everly is your second cousin once removed.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → Molly D. Everly (Norris)
his sister → Ike Everly
her son → Don Everly
his son
###
Jewel Guy/James Best is your second cousin once removed.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → Molly D. Everly (Norris)
his sister → Lena Mae Guy
her daughter → Jewel Guy/James Best
her son
https://www.geni.com/people/Jewel-Guy-James-Best/6000000079401725103
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones said:
Chuck Norris is your fifth cousin once removed.
You
→ John Earl Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → James Roland “Jim” Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → William Roland “Billy” Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → William Gilbert Norris
his brother → Samuel Norris
his son → William Simon Norris
his son → James Henry Norris
his son → Ray Dee Norris
his son → Chuck Norris
his son
Chuck’s Y-DNA is I2b1 which is a Plantagenet / Somerset Y-DNA haplogroup.
https://www.geni.com/people/Chuck-Norris/6000000004576878854
Julie said:
I am a Rivers, Richard III was the first lord Rivers. We have researched back and there was a Lord Mayor of London who was a Rivers. I’m convinced the Yorks are my ancestors!